[goodcompanion]

@Donn Hewes 12452 wrote:

Sustainability Now the thread really goes walk about! Just a few points to consider. Sustainability, for all it appears to imply simplicity, is anything but. First you need to all agree on who or what you wish to sustain, and for how long. Some folks refer to their family or farm and it implies one generation or two. Some folks are talking about all humanity and a few thousand years. These are really different, and the issues that would need to be addressed are different. Sustainability is fascinating stuff, and I believe while we are stumbling around looking for it, it will come up and whack us in the head. I truly believe that we will be told in no uncertain terms what we can and can not do to survive.

Right on, Donn. It seems, as has been suggested earlier, that the intention is to set up preachers of sustainability as straw men. I don’t see any intent to preach or “sell” on this forum, so I also don’t understand the poll and question the intent.

And how to define “sustainabilty” or sustainable practices is equally problematic. Perhaps we should also add that Monsanto offers itself as the “future of sustainable agriculture.” Without a trace of irony! Others offer hedge fund portfolios with “sustainable” yields. I am beginning to really dislike the word… We won’t agree on what it really means until we are forced to know.

I think that here we on this forum are at least trying to have a discussion about how an understanding of ecology might influence our farming/logging practices, which is a worthy, if difficult proposition. If we really want to participate in this discussion, then this might involve hearing some negative appraisals of practices we now use, or even some vocabulary not currently in our registers. Deal with it constructively or don’t participate.

[goodcompanion]

I remember my cousin and I hooked a suffolk ram to a sort of a go-cart that we built a covered wagon type thing onto. We were maybe around 10 years old. That ram pulled us pretty fast for about 50 feet, then crashed.

[goodcompanion]

As the saying goes,

“Don’t try to teach a pig to pull a cart. It won’t work. It will waste your time and annoy the pig.”

[goodcompanion]

I am sorry, I have not yet. Things have been very busy. 525 loaves this week! But soon.

[goodcompanion]

We have toulouse geese here. Such easy keepers, they get big and fat on nothing but grass and weeds. My goose bred just fine and brought off seven goslings the first time. A little grain for the first few weeks of life for the goslings, and some to carry the breeding pair through the winter, otherwise they take charge of their own affairs and get fat on just pasture. I have never raised turkeys so I can’t compare, but I am so fond of raising geese that I have taken on the charge of convincing customers to try a goose for thanksgiving or christmas instead of a turkey.

Food for thought, perhaps. Good luck!

[goodcompanion]

Shampoo for my real friends and real poo for my sham friends.

[goodcompanion]

@OldKat 9596 wrote:

I am not that way, because about 25 years ago we gutted a then 65 year old home and replaced virtually everything; plumbing, wiring, bathrooms, kitchen, the whole deal. We insulated up to the limits of what a structure that old can be insulated. We used double insulated windows where possible. I built the cabinets myself and did most of all of the other work myself as well. We could have easily had a custom built home constructed on that site for way less money than we spent on rescuing what was there. The only upside is that we started a trend in our neighborhood and virtually all of the older homes in the area have since undergone extensive makeovers that have kept them from meeting the wrecking ball. Our reward for all of this industry? Our taxes have increased almost 4-fold in the last 20 years! Now we almost can’t afford to live there anymore! When we retire we will no doubt have to move to another area because the taxes have gotten so high. Sad.

Right on. I also did a comprehensive renovation to a 1860’s house in town, that would otherwise have been bulldozed. Sold it to buy a farm!

My taxes would be crushing in my current location were it not for Vermont’s progressive income-based tax-rebate laws. I can farm wheat and cows and bake bread and easily pay what the state thinks is my fair share. Hope this lasts…

[goodcompanion]

Very nifty. I am always impressed by the work of really skilled framers.

I did about half of the frame on my house as a timber frame (everything except exterior and partition walls, which were stick built. I really enjoyed doing that work. Just as I am in awe of our forerunners who routinely plowed down more land in a day than I can manage in a week, I am in awe of those who routinely put up beautiful and enduring structures using only hand tools.

I made my frame out of local hemlock. Spitting wet and heavy as lead!

Since you mentioned timber frame economics, I’d like to add another note. I have two books on timber framing, both by Tedd Benson, in my library. The first I loved from the start. Written in 1978, it is brimming with idealistic back-to-the-lander fervor, with much wordage about the clarity and honesty of good work done by hand, and a strong message that by adhering to good design principles and doing much work yourself, a timber frame house need be no more expensive than a conventional one.

Benson’s next book on timber framing, written in the mid 90’s, depressed the hell out of me. Gone were the pen-and-ink and b + w photos of the original–this time it was nice and glossy, with many of the examples portrayed being (in my view) extremely lavish homes. Also gone is the back-to-the-lander sentiment, as well as any realistic expectation that someone who wants to live in a timber-framed house might have any real hands-on involvement in its construction.

The gist of the first book is, “here is how to build your timber frame house.” The gist of the second is, “here is an idea of the beautiful timber frame house that your timber frame contractor can build for you.” The intervening 15 years saw an upscaling of the framer’s art, coinciding with a general increase in new construction costs across the board.

I find the idea that beauty belongs only to the rich very depressing. This was part of the reason why I got out of timber/woodworking entirely and into farming instead. At least with farming, there is a possibility that someone with economic means similar to my own might buy my products. But timber frame houses are part of a world that belongs to my betters.

Which is bizarre. All this timber, all around us (at least here in Vermont) yet no feasible way to convert that timber into beautiful, durable, affordable housing.

[goodcompanion]

All right already. I will be very happy to go into detail on it. Certainly our operation is a work in progress still, we are entering our third year of operation, but lots to tell about.

We have a state-inspected bakery with a brick oven. This gives us considerable legal latitude in converting our production to table-ready goods.

I am not having such a great day today, little calf in a bad way, but will start a new thread soon. It is nice to have such interest.

[goodcompanion]

I second everything that George already said.

Particularly the part about value adding. We grow grain with drafts and also run a small brick-oven bakery. Thus we have support based on the quality of our baked goods even from people who are uninterested in the the farming side. Table-ready products are much easier to sell retail, and retail is the only way to go, in my opinion, for the small producer.

The bakery accounts for 80% of our farm revenue at this point. I run the whole operation with my wife and two apprentices. We have no off-farm income currently. We’re in our third year of operation.

I would be happy to share specific info on the requirements and costs of horsedrawn grain growing if thousandhills (or anyone else) would like.

[goodcompanion]

I use an older rake (case) that had been adapted from horsedrawn to tractor use. I re-adapted it to use a pole and seat, and then adapted back again to a forecart/tractor-type short pole.

There is a lot of torque turning a big rake on a dime–my methods of bracing and attaching the long pole kept breaking.

[goodcompanion]

Ah..perfectly valid question. How is this wagon shaping up?

I have bought a light market wagon for purposes of converting it into the future bakery wagon. It came with three good wheels, two 44″ (front) and one 48″ (rear, the other having a rotten felloe). I decided to move the 44″ to the rear and to later order a 34″ set from witmer coach shop (pa) for the front in order to have a full cut-under as the Ivan Collins plans suggest (purchased through wild horse books, mt, found through rural heritage website.)

I did some calculations as to how tight a turn I could pull off with the wheels as they were (44″, 48″) and came to the conclusion that it would be a little onerous for tight corners and backing, which would be required a lot for the bakery wagon to do its duty. So I decided to junk the bigger wheels and reconfigure the gear.

The box plan to make with a tongue-and-groove pine deck, oak frame, and veneer plywood sides and roof with a classy paint job. The roof I think I’ll cover with ice-and-water barrier. The box is to be 4′ wide, and close to 8′ long from footboard to back door.

Probably this will get built this coming winter and launched next year. I can see it doing duty as a mobile sales platform for raw milk, frozen meats, vegetables, and bread, all at once. Vergennes is so compact I could probably take pre-orders and make a deliver route for all those things if enough people signed on.

[goodcompanion]

@ngcmcn 8142 wrote:

George,
Some of my mowers don’t sing, they more like grunt and shake. They need attention.

I nominate the above for quote of the day.

[goodcompanion]

I think you will probably have to replace your flywheel in any event since it is cast iron, very difficult to weld, and would probably be imbalanced and vibrate even if you succeeded.

[goodcompanion]

@mull 8071 wrote:

Hello all,
…. although the team was found in the neighbors front flower bed a few weeks ago when they got out overnight.

They were just trying to put the “ox” back in “phlox.”

Welcome.

[Author]

Posts