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hope i succeeded in attaching a picture of my single ox cart set up.

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There are quite a few causes of diarrhea in calves–so what helps one case might not help another. this might help explain the differences of opinion and experience.
I’m a pathologist so I see a lot of scouring calves that don’t make it.

it’s the nature of experts to disagree but ( some) nutritionalists and (some) veterinarians do agree that scouring calves do in fact benefit from milk. Apparently, the enterocytes (cells that line the intestine) thrive only if they are bathed in proteins.

Of course, any formula can cause problems if it is too concentrated and apparently
Soy-based milk replacers are more likely to cause problems than milk-based forumlas.

remember, now: “the pathologist is always right, just 24 hours too late!” (ha ha)

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Dan and I were only at the Farm Show for two days. I didn’t want him inside too much, since he is used to being outside all the time.
It was a lot of work to get Dan and his cart there, but i think it was worthwhile. It was great to meet Robin, for one thing. Lots of people said they had “learned something” and I gave out the web site address to a few people who seemed really interested.

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Hey, now, watch what you’re calling OLD! to some of us, that picture looks pretty recent!

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i say “fight it” too. it sounds like creeping NAIS to me, as well.
as a veterinarian, it is my professional opinion that we already have the knowledge of how to manage livestock and we already have adequate laws and regulations in place to keep limit/ prevent disease. we don’t need another layer of regulation, especially since the new layer of laws will require a new layer of government employees to record and manage all the (useless) data.
government and regulations are supposed to exist for the benefit of society but it sure seems like tail’s wagging the dog.

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For what my opinion is worth: I agree with the posts above that recommend human-raised calves over cow-raised calves. (with the small caveat that it probably does depend a little on the breed. that is, a cow-raised brown swiss pair might be as cooperative as a bottle raised chianina pair. but breeding and other things being equal, the calves will have the highest respect and the most love the species that fed them. )

this can be a BiG plus if you like your team to be willing and happy workers. i have only had oxen that i raised “from little up”, but i know several teamsters who do it the other way, and i think some people actually relish the challange of trying to overcome the resistance that a pair of cow-raised steers inevitably puts up. for some reason, it doesn’t seem as easy to get a steers respect and love as it is to win over a horse. we have all heard stories of wild mustangs that were trained right and who would now go through fire and water for their owner/ trainer. it seems to me that this doesn’t happen quite the same way with cattle… but that might just be my lack of experience.

i like taking care of animals even more than working them, so raising calves is a big part of the fun for me. they are so easily managed when they are little! you don’t even need a stall, you can tie them up for the first week or so.
if you get 1000 pound untamed animals, you had better have some good fencing and someplace stout to tie them to!
Of course, unweaned calves need to be fed twice a day, no skipping a feeding because you have the flu , and that is not everyone’s cup of tea. Calfhood diseases (like various types of diarrhea and pneumonia) can also crop up , and then you may have a little extra trouble getting them over that… but if you get them from a well managed farm where they get the colostrum they need and if you are regular with your care of them, calves are very hardy. older cattle are not immune to sickness anyway.

the expense of getting calves is much lower, especially right now, dairy farmers are getting next to nothing for the bull calves at least in Pa.

hope some of this is useful.

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I don’t think you could make a hard-and-fast rule on when exactly to blanket a horse –too many variables. it would depend too much on the temperature, the humidity, wind, and also how fat the horses are (fat does more for insulation than hair), how big the horses are, (larger animals have a lower surface -to-volume ratio and therefor they cool off slower than small animals) and other factors as well.

As a general rule, i think it’s more important to blanket a horse if he has to stand for more than a minute or two when he’s hot , and you are going to ask him to work again.
The Amish blanket their (road) horses in cold weather if they have to stand tied for even a few minutes when they are hot and wet . in norway, the horse loggers i worked with did the same thing. (blanketed horses only during rest breaks, when they were hot and were going to work again after a bit. )

as was mentioned above, the main thing you want the blanket to do in a situation like this is to keep the muscles warm and ready to work again.
my two cents for what they’re worth.

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HYPP is an inherited metabolic disease. HYPP horses have trouble regulating the level of potassium in their muscle cells. since the level of potassium inside the diaphragm and heart muscle cells is what keeps us alive, it’s a serious problem. MIld cases can often be managed with low potassium diets but it’s by no means fool proof. so i wouldn’t get a purebred quarterhorse unless i knew he was HYPP negative. there are other muscle-related metabolic diseases that affect Quarter horses, too.

draft horses have their own versions of inherited metabolic problems. Veterinary pathologist Dr. Beth Valentine is an expert on this subject and she is also a draft-horse owner. if you want to know more about inherited metabolic / muscle diseases of horses she is a good source for information. she has written a book for horse owners and also contributes to RUral Heritage (magazine and web site).

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oops, i didnt realize the picture of Maggie that i uploaded had “labels” on it .
here is a better one.

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i tried to attach pictures of my two draft cross mares. hope it works.

the buckskin is named Cammy. i got her in 1994 when she was about 3-4. she is just about 15 hands and about 1200 pounds (most of it is head!)
i don’t know her breeding, (any ideas?) she came through a “horse dealer” in northern Pa.
She was in foal when i got her and had a paint filly in March 1994. only cammy knows who the father was. i named the paint Maggie.

they are both pretty good under saddle and in harness . a little willfull / spoiled, but not liable to shying or running away, etc.

[becorson]

comparing horses and oxen always makes me think of this poem by Elizabeth Coatesworth:

Swift things are beautiful: swallows, and deer
and lightning that falls, bright veined and clear;
rivers and meteors, wind in the wheat
a strong withered horse;
the runner’s sure feet.

and slow things are beautiful: closing of day,
the pause of a wave that curves downward to spray;
the ember that crumbles, the opening flower
and the ox that moves on in the quiet of power.

I think Carl is right; as a general rule, horses are flight animals, and cattle are not. cattle can eat fast but need to move slowly. horses are the opposite.

[becorson]

thanks for posting the information about the books. i hadn’t heard of either of those but they sound good… will have to see if i can find them.

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i have only had milking shorthorn, and jersey cattle and it might be different with beef animals but i personally would never keep a bull of a dairy or dual purpose breed past 2 -3 years old.
the dairy farm (Holsteins) where i worked as a teenager always had a young bull that ran with the heifers. at around 2-3 years, every bull would start “feeling his power” and one day would challenge the people who came to work with the heifers. then the farmer would replace the ‘old’ bull with a younger, less confident one.

i have also worked as a vet on farms where they kept older Holstein or Jersey bulls and i remember being truly scared of them when i went to work the cows on those farms …those bulls didn’t like me messin’ with their cows and they really wanted to kill me ….and i had the distinct feeling that at any moment, they might tear out the nose ring and DO it. i always had an escape route planned when i was working in those barns!!
at the bull studs where they keep mature dairy bulls for AI, they have concrete walls that separate the bulls’ walkways from the human handlers. bulls can crumple gates and fences like tin foil, and THEY KNOW IT!
My dad grew up in a farming community in the 20s , before AI was common. he remembers when being killed or injured by a bull was more common that tractor injuries or car accidents are nowadays.

I could go on and on but the point is: my own experience in the bovine world has made me downright chicken when it comes to handling dairy bulls. with beef cattle it’s apparently much different; with them, it’s the cows with calves that you have to watch out for! (“good mothering instinct” means “she will kill you if you even LOOK at her calf” )

seriously, If anyone “out there” has had different experience working bulls of the dairy or dual purpose breeds, speak up, i would like to be educated.

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ilike Jean, i’d like to hear how you are thinking you’ll use the Haflinger. that would affect your choice of harness design.
also, what would be “local” for you? I know good amish harness makers in Pa.

[becorson]

this is great, thanks to everyone for posting. I am getting a lot out of this. (smile)

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