[Tim Harrigan]

Great video, entertaining, informative and educational. You are doing good and important work, Jason. Nice to see young folks with an interest in your work, impressive interview with Richie.

[Tim Harrigan]

Another important dynamic is wheel height. The height of the wheel has a big effect on the ability to roll over rough terrain. When smaller wheels roll over a rock, a log, out of a rut they pull like they are moving up a steep incline. Larger wheels respond the same way, but over the same obstacle it will pull as if as if the incline is much less. And if you are riding the arch you will notice the difference because the small wheels will feel much rougher. So I think it is important to think of the functionality of the cart within the operational environment and for me ground clearance, flotation and the maneuverability that large tires provide over obstacles, in soft and muddy ground and in snow has value. A lot of arches in the US are designed for operator transport as well as log transport.

Hitch angle is an important starting point in discussions of animal draft, and it always needs to be considered, but it can’t be overly restrictive regarding implications for design. That optimal angle with a low hitch point is most important with large loads that offer considerable ground resistance, like ground skidding. That is because it allows the animal or team to use both the strength of the hind end and by balancing the mass of the front end, create an incredibly efficient pushing force. So it is most important in starting the load, but somewhat less important once the load starts and momentum comes into play because less force is required to keep the load moving than to start it.

When we add wheels the resistance is less, the pendulum effect of the log allows the team to move an instant before the load, the down-swing of the load actually gives a little push, and in the places where resistance is high and the log gets drawn out, the high draft is buffered by the elasticity provided by the swing in the chain. The lowered resistance and mechanical advantage of the arch diminish the importance of the steep hitch angle relative to ground skidding. It becomes more of an animal comfort issue and proper hitching should take care of that. So I have a hard time making the case that either arch is superior based on the hitch angle provided. In cases where the low hitch point is most important with the smaller wheels, the low hitch is less important with the larger wheel.

[Tim Harrigan]

I forgot you had tank heaters. I was wondering is the enclosures would conserve enough heat from adding 75 gal or so a day in a 100 gal tank to keep it from icing up to the point where the cattle can not break the ice. It seems like they can break it until it builds up an inch or so. Big difference between lows near zero and lows in the teens.

[Tim Harrigan]

Do you have horned herefords over your way?

[Tim Harrigan]

@Scott G 24127 wrote:

Looking at that pic you posted, if you were to increase the depth of your facecut just a bit you would have a lot easier time wedging trees over.

That is a good point, Scott. This interests me because it seems like I give a lot of thought to setting the face and getting the hinge right. Most of the trees I cut don’t come down easy, usually trying to drop them away from the lean to get them to fall without hanging up or banging up others. It is fun, though, when you get them drop and swing and land right where you want it to.:D

[Tim Harrigan]

@dominiquer60 24132 wrote:

It can get humid and stale when it is fully closed up. I avoided the barn til now for the better air quality that the hutches tend to provide.
Erika

I am glad you understand how bad a closed up barn can be for stock. If it is more than 5-10 degrees warmer inside than outside, the barn is too tight. Warm barns are for people, not animals.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Traveling Woodsman 24086 wrote:

The other thing I am looking into is making a pivoting plate with some kind of textured/grabbing surface so that when you have to jack a long ways it won’t try to break the plate off, which I’ve had happen several times.

Would it be adequate to just weld a collar on the plate to slip over the jack? That would allow it to move without breaking the weld but it would not slip out. And if you did not need the plate you could just leave it.

[Tim Harrigan]

What size tank, how many animals, how many hundredweight of animals, how many gallons per day are they drinking, where are you located?

[Tim Harrigan]

@Carl Russell 22841 wrote:

I also don’t just go for it. I usually will put a rolling hitch on the tree and try to roll it out of the tree it is lodged in with a few moderate and short even pulls. If that doesn’t work, I usually will give a few short pulls to see if I can get the tree to come down by itself.

Carl

Carl, what do you mean by a rolling hitch? Sometimes I pull the butt sideways to see if I can dislodge it, and I have rolled them off by hand, but I am not sure what exactly a rolling hitch is.

[Tim Harrigan]

Donn, today when I was breaking ice I was wondering how those insulated water tanks are working?

[Tim Harrigan]

@Carl Russell 24043 wrote:

But there are very few tools or supplies that are more valuable than a good rope. Just beware of trying to justify the expense with their use in the woods.

Carl

I need new rope so I will be upgrading to something like George is considering in the near future. I don’t expect to have it pay for itself just on applications in the woods although there are times when I would like to be able to redirect the line of pull for efficiency or safety, or to gain the mechanical advantage needed if I bury a butt on a good size tree. For me it is more in expanding the list of options so that I can break the occasional dependancy on tractor power for some of these jobs.

Sometimes it is hard to assess the payback on some investments. In some cases it seems the payback is there if you just use something every few years if it turns out to be the right tool for the job, particularly if it adds to the safety of you or your animals. Back to the car pulling incident, your team was able to extract the car, probably many teams would not have been able to do it. But given the right use of rigging it could have been hauled out with 1/3 the effort, within the ability of most teams of even smaller or younger animals.

I guess if I could put together some decent rigging for $400-$500 I would not mind if it was not used that often. There is some value for me in knowing that I have options on how to best apply the power available.

[Tim Harrigan]

Carl and others, can you comment on a good length of rope? If you are running 2 blocks with a 2 or 3 part line, plus tying your rope around a good size tree it will not take long to eat up 100 ft of rope. For instance, Carl, how much rope do you estimate you would have run pulling out Erika’s car the other night with a 2:1 advantage? Also, do you use a thimble to terminate the end of these ropes or distribute the stress like you would a wire rope?

[Tim Harrigan]

There are a few pictures in the photo gallery under working cattle that show cattle in stocks having their feet worked on.

[Tim Harrigan]

@fabian 24008 wrote:

In the frontview one can see that the team pulls “like a V” ; the legs closer together than the heads…..I want my team going in a vertical position to the ground. What’s the opinion of the experts here about this ?
Wolfgang

I have not seen the video so I can’t comment on it exactly. I do know, though, that sometimes cattle will haul out a little bit, particularly when they have not been worked for a while and are first on a load and want to step out quickly. They may well have squared up after they settled down.

[Tim Harrigan]

I agree with Joshua, you also need to consider the capacity of the snatch block which might be less with that small diameter rope. And the rated capacity is probably with a straight, even pull, not a good replicate of the instantaneous high pulling force you will get sometimes if the team hits the load or the load gets hung up. And you could have kinks or tied to a right angle like angle iron or something like that. A safety factor can’t hurt.

[Author]

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