[Tim Harrigan]

I just found this website http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/ It looks like they come at it from both a scientific and more popular approach.

[Tim Harrigan]

The landside is the part of the plow that runs along the side of the furrow as the moldboard turns the soil over. The share is the angled cutting surface that cuts the soil at the bottom of the moldboard. The share probably wings out past the moldboard a few inches. Measure at a right angle from landside to the point of the wing of the share. That is the width that the plow cuts as it moves forward. Usually, moldboard plows are designed to run at a depth one-half of the width of cut, so a 12 inch plow would run at 6 inches. You can run shallower though and it will be easier on your team, it just won’t look as nice. But, who cares as long at you get the weed control and seedbed you want?

If you are doing some restoration on these plows remember that worn shares and cutting parts will make the plow pull harder and generally perform poorly. About 50% of the power needed to pull the plow is used in cutting the furrow slice loose. The other 50% is used to lift and turn the furrow. So keep the cutting edges near their original shape. Worn shares not only pull harder, they are much more likely to contribute to the formation of a plow pan, a layer of compacted soil that can restrict water infiltration and root growth right below the depth of plowing. You might want to buff the rust off the landside, share and moldboard before plowing as well.

[Tim Harrigan]

If both plows were designed for animal power the length of the beam should not make much difference. The more important thing would be to maintain a straight line of draft from the point of pull at the yoke to the center of resistance of the plow. If it is a single bottom plow that will probably be on the moldboard about 1/2 the plow depth up from the bottom of the plow and about 1/4 of the distance in from the landside. You should have a vertical adjustment at the hitch point of the plow that allows you to adjust this line of draft.

A 16 inch cut is pretty big for a single bottom plow, 12-inch and 14-inch were more common. If you have not plowed with this team before you might want to take some time to make sure they are well conditioned to do that level of work. Take a look at this thread:
http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=2969
Other things like sharp cutting edges of the plow share and other parts will have a big impact on how well the plow works and how difficult it is to pull.

If the team is not prepared to pull that load you can expect problems when you get to the field.

[Tim Harrigan]

Andy, maybe your wife will be willing to help you at first by leading or driving the horse while you get the planter problems worked out. That way you can focus on one thing at a time.

[Tim Harrigan]

One thing that is not being brought up is the tillage done or soil condition before the disking/seeding gets done. Sickle, if you are plowing first or going into fall plowed ground that is probably quite a bit different from what Andy is doing by disking ground that has not been plowed. Andy is doing what I would do and that is to create a somewhat rough and blocky surface, not a finely prepared and leveled seedbed. I would broadcast over that and then maybe disk again, probably firm the seedbed with a cultipacker if I had one. That way much of the seed that fell into the cracks and underneath soil aggregates would be covered. The seeds would be at variable depths which is not all bad, you can get an OK stand with different weather conditions this way. A springtooth or spiketooth harrow does not have much value in this system because they are mostly leveling tools with some weed control benefits. They are not very good for covering seed, they mostly just move soil sideways and dry it out.

If you fall or spring plow and then disk you probably have a soil structure that is broken down and maybe can not use a clumpy surface to your advantage. The disk will probably be the best tool for working in seed, you can change the weight of the disk and perhaps the gang angle to change the soil action and depth of cover. Cultipacking would help, particularly if the soil was plowed and worked in the spring.

Oats and rye are fast starters and should give you good grazing fairly quick. I was not clear on your other plans for legumes of grass legume mix. Would that be in the same field to establish a long term pasture or hay field? Either way, timely rain will be important. I would also kick the seeding rate up for such a seeding because there is a good chance you will not get the emergence you would by drilling.

[Tim Harrigan]

Spring tillage work is just about started in this part of the country so I thought I would revive this thread on conditioning draft animals for the work at hand. Many teams do not get the work they need throughout the winter to be in shape for pulling a plow or other tillage tools. Some work early on with a sled or other resistance can help you make sure they are ready to go.

A week or so ago Carl started an interesting post about foundational communication in response to some behavioral and other issues that had been brought up. Presenting your team with a task they are not well prepared for can give rise to a range of problems that I would describe as ‘a failure to communicate’. If they are not prepared for the effort of the work they may become discouraged, jump the furrow or refuse to pull.

I have developed the concept of equivalent loads in other threads here on DAP and I think it is really important when preparing for spring work. Plow draft can vary quite a lot depending on soil type, moisture, whether recently tilled cropland or hay or pasture ground, but a good guess for a 12 inch, single bottom plow at 6 inch depth is in the range of 600 to 800 lbs pulling force. The pulling force to move a sled or stone boat on firm, level pasture ground will be about 40% of the total weight of the sled. So if you want to create a pulling force with the sled equivalent to what you expect with the plow, say 600 lbs force, the total weight of the sled needs to be about 2.5 times (1/0.4) the pulling force of the plow, or about 1500 lbs. With this load, the pulling force needed to pull the 1500 lb sled will be nearly equivalent to the pulling force needed to pull the plow, about 600 lbs force.

This is how you can use a sled or stoneboat to condition your team and know when they are prepared for the resistance of a moldboard plow or other heavy load. Start with lighter loads and increase the weight as the team becomes hardended to the task.

[Tim Harrigan]

Rye can really jump with a few warm days in the spring so don’t admire it too long or you will have a heck of a time trying to control it with your disk. It would be about like the sod you mentioned in the other post about working this weekend. It seems to me that hairy vetch likes to be seeded a little deeper than might be typical with your disk, or you might have run out of degree days to get it started. Red clover is a nice cover, we like to get it started in August here and I suspect your season is pretty similar to ours. We have seen the same with turnips here with some living through the winter. We had a good, early snow cover that never left, that makes a big difference. Those should be easy to control with disking. Oats might take a few passes to cut up and incorporate.

[Tim Harrigan]

Nice harvest festival. Great website. Thanks for the music.

[Tim Harrigan]

Nice video, thanks. Where is that?

[Tim Harrigan]

At one month old it is a good time to start handling them. I am guessing you have them in a pen. You should be in the pen a few times a day touching them and getting them used to being close to you. I don’t think it really matters if you use a collar or a halter, main thing is that it fits. It will be easy to introduce a halter if you are bottle feeding them, just hold the halter in front of the bottle and they will stick their head right in. They will soon associate the halter with being fed and it will not be a problem getting it on them. If you are not in a hurry I would probably just put the halter on when feeding them and interacting, brushing them also would be good, then take it off when you are done.

After a week or so you can put a rope on them and start teaching them to lead. They have a natural balance point near the point of their shoulder, you will be working in their flight zone. If you step in back of it they will tend to move forward, step ahead and they will tend to stop or maybe want to step back. Work with that tendency, and encourage them to move ahead with you or stop on command with a small stick or goad. Get behind the point of their shoulder and tap them on the butt with the goad if necessary to get them moving and tell them to ‘come up’ or whatever command you want to use. Also teach them ‘whoa’ by stepping up and giving a gentle tap on the nose. After they are comfortable with that you can introduce gee and haw, back and whatever other commands you may want to use. If you can do that for 10-15 minutes per day they will lead easy in no time, in most cases. Some cattle are really laid back, others might be more nervous and flighty, those kind just take a little more work.

If you want to tie them, I would just halter them and brush and handle them, let them go when you are done. Most cattle like to be brushed. I don’t really see where there is much to be gained by just tying them and leaving them. It is best if they look forward to interacting with you and that is not much of an incentive. Once they are used to being haltered and handled, standing tied will not be an issue for them.

[Tim Harrigan]

In some ways I always welcome and am thankful for these “set-backs” because they reveal gaps in my understanding of how complete our communication is as a team. And it helps me develop a better understanding of how my steers understand our relationship and the tasks/situations we encounter. Acting out is an attempt to communicate clearly, maybe because of developing physical issues, perhaps because of new situations that challenge their comfort level, maybe I just failed to read other more subtle messages.

Because I am the leader of the team I bring my own logic to the process and mistakenly think my logic is transparent and also logical to the animals. I can become puzzled or annoyed when they act erratically, but I should be thankful that they have found a way to reveal the knowledge gap. I recall an interesting situation where a young team of steers bolted when crossing a gravel road early on in stone boat training. The logical conclusion was that the team was frightened by the stone boat and this was baggage that the young steers would carry with them (teamster logic). The lesson the young steers took away was that place where they were frightened was dangerous (cattle logic). Turned out the steers had no bone to pick with the stone boat. Teamster logic is linear (depending on who lays it out..:confused:), cattle logic is spatial and contextual.

Our animals have a completely different set of decision rules to guide their choices, interpretation of events and reactions than we do so we can’t assume their understanding of why things happen is the same as ours. If a gap exists, as leaders it is up to us to close it by presenting our logic in a more effective and meaningful way. Anger, being impatient, etc. make the gap wider. So a set-back is not really a set-back, it is just a bend in a winding road and an opportunity to become a more proficient leader.

[Tim Harrigan]

Looks great, Jason. I am looking forward to that.

[Tim Harrigan]

near horse;26067 wrote:

… Is it easy (or possible) to convert from hoe style openers to discs? …

I am not sure without seeing it. I am sure Andy could do it, not sure about any other mortal folks:)

[Tim Harrigan]

For the most part it is that disk openers are much better in crop residue. Double disk openers are more sturdy than single disk and will open a more uniform furrow for seed placement, and the seed will be less susceptible to wind if the seed is dropped next to the opener. Shoe openers are designed for clean tilled fields and will catch residue if it is not buried below seed depth. Shoe openers can also have a tendency to compact or smear the seedbed if the soil is too wet. I think hoe openers have been used for reduced tillage in some drier climates but I have not used drills with hoe openers before. Hoe openers leave a roughend surface that can help prevent wind and water erosion.

[Tim Harrigan]

The bare swath would be one thing, that would certainly turn into a weedy strip. Also, if you roll a crop like rye at the right time it will kill it and the residue will be anchored to the ground. Then, when you drill through it, it will not bunch up or snow plow in front the the coulters or openers. The wind will not blow it around, and if you get a heavy rain it will not wash or float to the swales or to the ditch.

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