[Tim Harrigan]

Erika, just don’t carry your goad with you when I am around when you are in that frame of mind.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 29124 wrote:

The other thing that I think it interesting is the general idea that things that have been around for a while must be perfected by now. I do think there is some merit to this idea, but I generally disagree.

I am not suggesting it can not be improved, just that if something seems simple and obvious maybe there is more going on than meets the eye. One question to consider, though, is improvement at what cost? Simplicity and ruggedness had value in that working environment, and still does in many cases.

[Tim Harrigan]

I am not sure you or the oxen will be very happy with a 2 chain arrangement. A yoke with a single attachment is basically a class II lever with each of the steers alternatively acting as the fulcrum and the applied load at their end of the lever. How that lever responds depends on if they are stepping in phase (each ahead simultaneously) or perfectly out of phase (most lever action). You may find a lot of wasted energy in the load transfer process if you start messing with the system. Try it though, report back. Don’t ever discount the perceptiveness of ox drovers throughout the ages.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 29052 wrote:

..counterweight (perhaps a large loag or group of logs) attached to the other end of the line so that it raises as the horses fall…

I saw a video of something similar of harvesting hay in Europe, probably mountains of Switzerland or Germany where they loaded a sled at the top of the hill, pulled it down with the team, the sled being pulled down was attached by cable to a sled at the bottom of the hill which was pulled up the hill as the load descended. If I find the video sometime I will provide the link.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Carl Russell 29050 wrote:

…By the time the team came to a stop, hanging from their harnesses halfway up a bent over spruce tree, the snub man was already gone, and running for the Canadian border. Carl

My guess is the snub man was the fastest guy in the camp! 😮

[Tim Harrigan]

Nice cart. I sure would like one like that.

[Tim Harrigan]

I am not sure what to make of this hoof color and hardness issue. I know it has been widely stated that light color hooves are softer or wear faster than black, but that seems to me to be a pigment issue and I have not seen any explanation of how pigment could affect hardness. Also, there are tests that can be done to measure hardness but I have never seen results of those tests applied to horses or cattle. I have a steer with 1 white and 3 black feet, but I have not seen any difference in wear that I could link to color. I see things that seem to be more common with front versus back feet and vice versa. When I rasp their feet I can see how the white could be perceived to be softer because the white filings show up better on the ground than the black, so it looks like it is filing faster, but I have to file just as much on the black feet to get them in shape. Also, with my steer, I have never had a problem with his white foot, but have had with the black. So I would just like to see some proof or convincing reason why white feet are softer than dark feet.

[Tim Harrigan]

One thing that draws me to working with oxen is the honest simplicity of the relationship and the tools. Now, I am not trying to make production in my logging and skidding, but the thought of these electrical add-ons freaks me out. I am sure they would expand my vocabulary though.

[Tim Harrigan]

Will and Abe would stretch that out in short order.

[Tim Harrigan]

It seems pretty fashionable in some quarters now to say “just let the market work without interference”, but generally markets do not work well in allocating natural and environmental resources. It is because in some sense they are common property such as water quantity or quality, or air quality, which is the property of all but the responsibility of no one individual. So if forest land is abused by over cutting or clear cutting for instance there can be external costs to society related to erosion, sedimentation of waterways etc., or just the damage to the viewscape that society pays, even though the landowner reaps all the economic benefits. So well managed forests, even ones that are privately owned, in some ways are public goods in the sense that they can provide flood control benefits, etc. to everyone downstream weather or not they pay for them. If we rely on conscience, or doing the right thing as Phil seems to suggest, that is fine as long as everyone shares the same values and is willing to acknowledge the common good, but it seems pretty clear that is not the case, and in fact, that approach favors selfish individuals and short-term greed. So as many have explained here, the various programs to pay landowners to act in the best interest of all may not be as efficient as we would like, but I am happy to contribute tax dollars to that effort.

What Carl and others are doing is important and has potentially lasting benefits now and into the future. I encourage them to consider the use of NRCS funds to help landowners, foresters and timber cutters get on board. This approach asks them to understand and value many aspects of the forests that do not provide short-term economic benefits. It does not help pay the bills so if there are alternative ways to offset those ‘losses’ it would be good use of those funds.

There are also other ‘losses’ to Carl, Jason, Scott and others that put energy into developing this holistic view of the forest and the services they provide. That is that the landowners have to understand the implications of their choices and what options or alternatives they have, particularly in this case where the option presented can be seen as radical. The ‘loss’ that they experience is the loss of income related to providing education and building the awareness of landowners and foresters regarding alternative management options. There are issues of protecting the environment, building a skilled force of local labor capable of employing low-impact, draft animal extraction techniques and adding value to forest products, building the capacity of the community and having an impact much greater than logging a tract and hauling the logs to the mill every 10 years or so.

So I hope that these loggers who believe in the common good consider looking not only for funding support from NRCS, but from other foundations and granting agencies that share their goals and values. This approach to managing forest resources requires enlightened landowers and others to drive the process. There are ways to help cover the cost of developing and delivering that education and building the awareness, I hope the opportunities can be uncovered and developed.

As Carl mentioned, Jason Rutledge has been a leader in this effort for many years, I hope he can find time to comment after the dust settles from the draft animal power show that he organized for this weekend in VA.

[Tim Harrigan]

I guess it helps me focus as well. 😉

[Tim Harrigan]

And on something that size and in sod I would not bother with a back furrow, I would just plow in one direction. That should keep it a little cleaner and make the fitting easier.

[Tim Harrigan]

I think the only way you might have some problems is if the grain is a little moist going in and seasonal temperature swings cause some condensation on the sides of the barrel. If you store for a long time, even if the grain is dry it will seek an equilibrium moisture with the ambient air which means it will tend to pick up moisture. You might not get side condensation, but you could easily get condensation and spoilage at the bottom if the barrel is stored on cool ground. So I would store them up on a pallet if possible if you are going to store over winter into next spring.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 28623 wrote:

30 Black Walnut: I went with black walnut rather than english walnut because I was worried about the hardiness of the english tree. Maybe I didn’t need to (as peaches can grow here) but I figured that I should play it safe on such a long term project. The walnuts are high fat, so I am planning on using these to provide dense nutition to lactating sows and overwinter breeding stock. The timber value of the walnuts is attractive too (even though I might not live long enough to see it).

Black Walnut are nice trees but they can be hard to integrate with some other plants. Here is some information from Ohio. http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1148.html

[Tim Harrigan]

I remember the article, it was in RH and written by Barb Lee. Seems like it was at least 5 years ago. It does not show up in a search of the RH back issues so I do not know what is going on with it.

[Author]

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