[Tim Harrigan]

Looks good to me. Thanks. Tim

[Tim Harrigan]

George, 50 trees can mean a lot of different things. Are you ground skidding one at a time, arch, loading a scoot or something else? Skidding tree length or 2 or 3 logs per tree? Easy to twitch out to the skid trail? Seems like there are a lot of variables that could affect your productivity and time needed.

[Tim Harrigan]

Hey Jenn, I do not have a problem with that. Had my car worked on a couple of weeks ago and paid $80/h for the labor. We are paying for professional services and Sam is one of the best.

[Tim Harrigan]

Hey, Mitch, I sort of do the same thing with my stoneboat when it gets icy because it can run up on them even on level ground. I run chains from the front hole in the head all the way along the bottom and hook the ends to stake pockets on the top in back on each back corner. That gives some resistance going forward and also sideways if I get on a side slope. It will chatter sometimes though.

[Tim Harrigan]

Ed, I just saw the email from John come through and it looks very promising. They are asking for some specific information now so it probably would be best for us now do develop the specific proposal that includes the initial work of John and others as well as the requirements for the educational components that we have been discussing. So we will have to nail down some hard numbers on the filming and related work in particular. We will also need to propose a timeline for when specific activities will begin and be accomplished.

They can not fund us directly but it sounds like they can rally groups that can. Do you know of a sympathetic conservation group or related association with granting authority that we could approach and direct funds to as we work with FS to fund this? It would be great if they have an intense interest in the region.

Good work.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Jen Judkins 31621 wrote:

Kevin is going to tackle the details with Sam. Some of the issues to be resolved:

1. How much does Sam want to be reimbursed for his teaching time (per day? per student?)
2. How will we handle food? Sam mentioned some ability to feed a small group, up to 25 or so. Would we pay him for that or provide food and cooks?
3. How many students? What makes the most sense in regard to keeping the course reasonably priced, but manageable for Sam? Is there a minimum number to make the workshop feasible?
4. There is no on site horse/oxen housing, but rough camping will be allowed. There are a couple of hotel/motels in the area. We should be sure to get this information into the brochure.
5. What will he need in regard to assistants?

Jen, it does not look like you are asking for suggestions but I will offer my reactions anyway.

1. I suggest we offer Sam $200/d, at least for Sat and Sun. He will have a lot more effort and time into it than that in preparation and clean-up by the time he is done. Invited assistants, offer to pay mileage at $1/mile if they are hauling equipment/animals, $0.50/mile if they are just driving.
2. Don’t know what our capacity is regarding food. My gut reaction is to stay out of the food business if we can and focus our effort on the draft animals and craft. But if we have folks who really enjoy that aspect and want to do it, go for it.
3. I would be surprised it too many is an issue, but that is a good problem to have. This is where knowledgeable assistants are important. In this type of workshop there will be a lot of standing around, listening. So try to break it up into stations and rotate groups through. For instance, one group can focus on harnessing and conditioning, another on plow adjustment, forces and attachments, another on the practice of plowing etc. More engagement, less static activity.
You may also want to consider bringing in other tillage equipment, not just for show and tell but for a discussion/demonstration of strategic use: why, when and how should they be used (or not used).
4.
5. Assistants will be very important. The nature of the heart of this workshop is one-on-one so having the capacity for as many one-on-one groups engaged simultaneously will be key to a superior experience for attendees. My rule-of-thumb is if you are outdoors, use it. If you are talking, good winter indoor activity.

Looks like this can be a great workshop, cool stuff.

[Tim Harrigan]

George, I would be hard pressed to find a place in Michigan where I had a problem like that so I am not speaking from experience, but I would put a bridle chain or two on the log to create some drag.

[Tim Harrigan]

Ed, in one sense I agree that we are about one year behind. In other words, we should be applying now for funding for events planned for 2013. One the other hand, I think we have already gone to the well many times (the well being the teamsters) and I am concerned that well may dry up. There are a lot of facets to this issue that should be examined so I would prefer to continue the discussion well before the next P&E meeting. Email or this site would be OK, or maybe we need to convene a special conference call devoted to that topic. Any thoughts? How about you other P&E members? Maybe it seems like I am overly focused on details, but in my experience the old saying that the devil is in the details couldn’t be more true in this case.

[Tim Harrigan]

@highway 31574 wrote:

Here is the proposed January agenda.

4. Teamster compensation, work on the proposed teamster pay and possibly initiate next year? Keep the mileage reimbursement for this year for all events? 15min

Ed

Ed, as you know I was not on the Board Mtg on Sunday evening. I assume this emerged from that meeting? Can you give me some background? Email is OK if you prefer. T

[Tim Harrigan]

@john plowden 31532 wrote:

… I have a friend who is an excellent film maker – he may be interested…

John, can you have an informal discussion with him about this sometime before our next P&E meeting? If we had a ballpark cost and a heads-up regarding any other things we should know such as if it will require extra teamster time that would really help with our planning process.

[Tim Harrigan]

@highway 31490 wrote:

… we have a public relations shop that can help target large audiences…

John Marunowski
Detail – Recreation Specialist for Storm Recovery Team
Backcountry / Wilderness Supervisor
Pemigewasset Ranger District
White Mountain National Forest
(603) 536 – 6106

Ed, if you have a chance to discuss the grant/sponsorship/fund raising aspect with him that would be helpful for the next P&E meeting. We certainly need to active in the process, but if they can take leadership in the effort that would be great for us. It sounds like they have the personnel to pull it off.

[Tim Harrigan]

@john plowden 31532 wrote:

I’m on board for the project – The educational benefits are huge – I have a friend who is an excellent film maker – he may be interested – I don’t think we should waiver on the rates – they are asking for our Professional services –
John

Sorry if I seem a little slow on the uptake here. I understand they are asking for professional services and I also do not think we should waiver on the rates. By asking what are they asking for I was wondering if they expect the teamsters to donate their services, or if they are asking DAPNet to carry the teamsters costs?

[Tim Harrigan]

@highway 31531 wrote:

Tim,

This was already done by John Plowden. The report John circulated to the P&E Committee last month was in depth and had an estimate included for the work.

Ed, yes, I saw that and it was clear. My thought was that maybe we needed a revised budget that included the costs for developing the educational component (filming, etc) and any other components that the P&E thought were important beyond what John estimated for moving the materials and related costs. So the revised budget would reflect the costs for accomplishing their goals and our goals. Now we are both leaning into the yoke and potential funding organizations or conservation groups can see how the project be accomplished and have lasting impact that justifies their investment.

[Tim Harrigan]

@highway 31472 wrote:

Should I be worrried? My neighbor has hay from the same field and thier Canadian Percheron Cross has the same issue. What else might cause this?

Ed

Not sure, Ed, but because a neighbor feeding the same hay has the same problem I would start looking closely at the hay. Could be some plants that are toxic to the horses. It does not seem like the K20 would be the problem but you never know. How much was applied, and was the hay harvested after the application? Can you feed another hay source for a while and see if it clears up?

[Tim Harrigan]

@highway 31490 wrote:

…depending on the number of teamsters, that we can continue with the fuel reimbursement. I know that’s not the biggest incentive but we have a public relations shop that can help target large audiences…

Maybe if we develop a specific plan and budget, they can undertake a fund raising effort?

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