[Tim Harrigan]

It is not really easy to evaluate soil profiles for compaction unless it is really severe and obvious. In that case you might see and abrupt change in density such as at the depth of a moldboard plow or disc. It might show up as a reduction in rooting depth, roots moving laterally, or a noticeable reduction in the size of roots indicating an inability to easily move below the compacted layer. With the trowel, you typically want to just poke at the soil profile and break out small chunks, and look for changes such as a platey, closely layered structure. Spring is not a particularly good time to do this because the soil is typically very moist and the wetness lubricates the soil particles and masks the changes. It is probably easier later in the summer when the soil is drier.

It helps to have a bigger hole to work in so a back hoe is nice. In drier soil you may notice compacted soils have coalesced into large clods that would have to be broken down with additional tillage. One thing you could do is dig in an alternate location in a fence row, a place that has not been tillage and trafficked frequently. That would give you a point of reference for what those soils might look like in a more ideal state.

It helps to have more long-term knowledge of the soils. Some soils set up so tight that they really need periodic subsoil tillage for many crops, but that is not at all typical. It is easier to look at growing crops and the soil surface to find areas that appear to be affected by compaction or poor soil structure. Typical would be poor infiltration, although many soils infiltrate poorly even when not compacted by equipment or traffic, stunted plants indicating poor root development or oxygen stress from excessive moisture, crusting surface after rain, areas quick to moisture stress in dry conditions, etc. Of course, these mimic other problems as well so just because you notice these things it does not mean the you need to subsoil, at least not on a regular basis.

I the case you mention, where the farmers think the field may need to be subsoiled, you should trust their judgement. Go ahead and subsoil the entire field, it is a relatively small area, and put in place a cropping program that will build soil quality. If in a few years you sense that subsoiling may be beneficial, try to deep till some strips and not others so you can see if it has a positive effect. For instance, if possible, do the deep tillage in strips east to west, and plant your vegetables over the top in rows north to south. That will give you a good sense of the result of deep tilling. The reason you need to do this is that the effect of deep tillage can be highly dependent on the weather, particularly in a wet year. But you really want to know the effect over all years, so you have to have something to compare it to. I do not think you want to have deep tillage as a regular part of your cropping program unless you have a clear reason to do it. It is not really draft-animal friendly work for most folks, and you may be better off putting scarce resources to use in other ways.

Soil quality, ‘health’, requires a balance of the physical, chemical and biological factor of the soil. Physical properties like aggregate stability and infiltration you can see and influence with tillage. Chemical factors like pH and nutrients you can measure with a soil test. Biological factors are harder to measure and interpret but if you take care of the physical and chemical components the biology can develop. Indicators of soil quality include soil pH, soil organic matter (SOM) and soil properties that are related to soil organic matter such as macro-aggregate stability. These are things that develop over time in response to the cropping program, soils, etc. It often takes five years or more to measure significant changes in soil organic carbon, aggregate stability, etc

It is your call on how or if you want to use these health assessments. I think tests for soil microbial respiration are going to cost about $100 each, although I admit I have not looked at the Cornell stuff. It is important to try to sample at the same time each year, and as close to the same location each year as possible. The results will be influenced by soil moisture, temperature, etc so it would be good to consider your field operations as far as the timing. For instance, if you will be spring plowing and planting about the same time, you may want to sample a few weeks after planting each year. It would not be a good idea to sample one year before plowing and after planting the next. Same with manure applications, etc. Also, the test probably has some procedures regarding soil moisture. Personally, I would not bother with these tests at this point unless you want a record of changes over time. They and expensive and they will not give you much practical information about what to do next.

There is a lot involved with soil biology. Basically, reduce tillage intensity, use cover crops to maintain an active root systems for as long as possible throughout the year, use rotations that will provide a balance of pests and pathogens, cover crops help in this by essentially extending the crop rotation, add additional organic inputs such as manure or compost to the extent that you can keep soil chemistry from getting out of whack, and make use of botanical diversity with mixes of grasses and legumes when possible. I know intensive tillage (moldboard plowing) is common in vegetable production, so shallow plowing is probably best. You just have to develop a system that works for you keeping the fundamental principles in mind. If you do these things, the soil biology will take care of itself. Not that you cannot influence it. Certain cover crops such as oilseed radish and oriental mustard have biosuppressive properties that have importance in biological systems and you will want to learn about those. But it is not as simple as it seems. Here is a link to an article I wrote recently with a colleague regarding N cycling with cover crops in corn production. http://news.msue.msu.edu/news/article/building_soil_quality_with_an_oilseed_radish_cover_cropwhere_did_the_n_go
This issue of soil biology is quite involved and not real well understood, at least from the point of practical management in a production system. I guess that is why it is so interesting.

[Tim Harrigan]

We have had additional discussions about subsoiling, see the link below. Pulling even one subsoiler shank at 12-14 inches is going to a challenge for even a team of three, but it will vary considerably based on the soil texture, soil moisture, shank design, etc. If it does not pull hard, then I would wonder why you are doing it. There are a lot of reasons why water does not infiltrate well, and machinery compaction from many years of corn silage production could be one of them. If that is the case, I would encourage you to custom hire the work done with tractor power. I would also encourage you to have strips of tilled and untilled land, at least for a year or two. Then you can better assess the results of the deep tillage operation.

http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?2740-Keyline-Plow&highlight=subsoil

This is something that Carl wrote in one of the post from this link. I think it is very perceptive and profound:

I realize that there are those who just want to use animal power as a replacement for petroleum based machinery. For some the use of animal power leads to a sensitivity to the permanent ecosystem that leads to a development of craft. In this instance farming is more than methods of harvest, and enhancing production, it also has its roots in walking the line where human interests meets ecological parameters.

[Tim Harrigan]

Good idea. 🙂

[Tim Harrigan]

I don’t work with an arch very often, but I have measured the pull an arch compared to ground skidding and in general, if you short-chain the front of the log so it carries off the ground, you can increase the size of the log by 1/3 and with an arch and move it with the same effort, or move the same log with less effort. In your example, going from a 26 inch to 30 inch oak log is a size increase of 1/3. If you long-chain the log and just drag it with the arch I do not think there is much of any advantage for the drafts.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Kevin Cunningham 34037 wrote:

… I know that anger is not a good trait for a teamster, but I have many of the other qualities that I think make a good teamster. And I do have the persistence and patience to work through these problems. …I am going to reevaluate my expectations and adjust from there.

And I am getting better at controlling my anger when they run… It is going to be hard to control my instinct to run, though. When they have taken off, I don’t even think about it, I just start running too. It triggers something deep inside of me that will be very hard to control. Hopefully I won’t ever have to have that experince again.

Kevin, I know you have the traits to be a good teamster. Almost all of us come to this craft molded by the modern mentality that we are in control…of the pace, the speed, the outcome, all of it. If we stick with the craft, and take it to heart, we will leave it having been re-formed by the process. But it is not always easy. I told Andy, ‘training a pair of steers is easy compared to training your mind’. Your mind is the unruly part, not the steers. The first thing you need to develop is patience, you can’t rush that anymore than you can rush the development of your steers. When you get really pissed off, look in the mirror. You will see who it is that you are pissed off at. If you still want to slap someone around, go to work.

Cattle are flight animals. Humans are predators. When your team runs, and it triggers something in you that you find hard to control, what do you think it does to them? We all make mistakes and do things we regret, sometimes out of anger, sometimes from just not being as aware as we should be. The key thing is, don’t make the same mistakes over and over. Don’t have one day of experience over and over and over.

I have no doubt that you will be a good ox handler. You may think, as Andy probably did a while back, that we roughed you up pretty good. If that happens it is because we see you trying to get over a hump, and we sense you need a little nudge or maybe a full-out body slam. Don’t feel bad unless we go silent.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Head yokes 33999 wrote:

We must also keep in mind that not all cattle will make a good ox….and I was told to keep in mind that it is easier to prevent a problem than to correct one.

I can’t disagree with anything you said, but I do not think we can assume this pair will not make a good team at this point, for many of the reasons already pointed out. But it certainly is better to prevent a problem than correct one. Kevin, for the time being, just focus on not letting them run away again. If you stop them and have to shift your attention, stop and stand them with their heads facing away from home. If you want to get some work done, put a 50 lb pale of rocks on your sled and bring it around in front of them and tie them to it if nothing else is available. If they run, and you chase them and then load them up and make them work their ass off, I guarantee you they do not make the connection between the two activities. Makes you feel better, but this is not about making you feel better. If they run, don’t yell, don’t chase after them. Just walk, circle around and get between them and home if you can, and go back to work. I understand your disappointment, but if you still think these guys are ready for the bone yard, you need to ask yourself if you have the temperament to work with oxen or draft animals.

[Tim Harrigan]

Kevin, we had an interesting discussion about run-aways a couple of years ago, Rob’s team is doing real well now. This is a little different situation than yours, but it might provide some insight. I will probably have a few comment later on tonight.

http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?2546-Runaway-advice

[Tim Harrigan]

Seems like if there is anything pressing that would impact the annual meeting that we would take care or it well in advance of that. So I would say probably not.

[Tim Harrigan]

@near horse 33924 wrote:

I think in the west, with our limited to non existent summer/fall precip, pasture/hay ground renovation is “different”. But I do think Tim’s comment regarding N addition is a good one. If you’re trying to get some new plants started in an existing stand, you don’t want to “encourage” the established plants to grow rapidly and outcompete the new, less competitive planting.

Much of our “soil seed bank” consists of the undesirable plants rather than stuff we want to see. So we’re not at the “manage to maintain” level in our pasture community, yet.

Tim – the N. Dakota guys were seeding ground that was part of a crop rotation system (mostly). So some of this was providing grazing, cover and some soil benefits instead of fallowing. Let me see if I can find one of the links associated with the practice.

Yes, I am sure you are very different, but some of the same basic principles apply: 1) the seed needs contact with the soil, sunlight and water, 2) a chance for the crop to recover after grazing, 3) a balance of nutrients and soil structure to support crop growth, and 4) soil biological activity. The rest are details.

Geoff, I thought the N.D. guys were working with permanent pasture. Very different from what we are used to here.

[Tim Harrigan]

@Countymouse 33917 wrote:

Still need to practice sidestepping on “gee” a lot. My off ox is a bad sidestepper moving out. I tend to not do this much because doing fieldwork with “gee” commands makes me walk in the tilled soil. Whaa! 😮

Andy, you just need to get some of those bear paw-type snow shoes. Great for working your team in tilled ground 😎

[Tim Harrigan]

I think the training is just an issue of going slow, and stop them mid-turn to get them set-in or out, hold one back, whatever to demonstrate what you expect. It is a bit of a challenge for them, the ox on the outside of the turn always has a tendency to just want to come around, so you have to slow him down and keep him set it. Andy, you do not need a hook, I just use the lash to reach over and tap him on the far side to bring him in. In the gee turn (I say gee-off, haw-to for a tight haw) it is probably easiest when training to stand right in front of them and take away their space to come forward, particularly the nigh ox needs to stay back.

It is easier doing haw turns. What I did early on for conditioning and training was to load a stoneboat and come down the N-S length of the pasture going E-W side-to-side. I would line up on a fence post and pull to one side of the pasture, turn 90 deg haw, go about 3 posts (30 ft) and another 90 haw, pull to the other side of the pasture, 90 deg gee, 30 ft and 90 deg gee, etc. If you do that a few times you work on both turns equally, and they are actually working and not getting bored turning, turning, turning in one small area. It seemed to work. I think the thing is do not hurry them, or let them hurry through the turn. Take whatever time it needs to show them what you want. And be consistent. They will be as sloppy at this as you let them, so you decide what you want.

Vicki is right, when training a younger team it is probably better to use a pole than a chain. They will have less tendency to step over it, and if you lay it up on the sled or whatever you have it teaches them to step over a pole for hitching. Useful for later wagon or cart work.

[Tim Harrigan]

Mark, yes that is a good book, I have it and it really helped me think about pastures in a different way. Your approach is a good one, it does take some patience and rotating and not overgrazing are important parts of it. Are you feeding your own hay? Sometimes you can import some heavy weed seed loads when you bring in hay. I like to have about 40% legume and some areas have that, some do not so that is where adding desireable species can speed things up a bit. I have continued to see real improvements in the plant diversity and quality by managing the grazing and clipping the weeds. Goldenrod responds to clipping, not every plant does. Multi flora rose is one and this year I am going to spot spray to do my best to eliminate it. Goats would probably get after it pretty good, but I do not have fences to hold in goats.

[Tim Harrigan]

The one case where I would seriously consider chemical weed control combined with tillage would be in a heavy quack grass stand, sounds like johnson grass is about the same thing.

[Tim Harrigan]

Most of the time if folks are interested in improving existing stands it is because the combination of low soil fertility and over grazing has really reduced the productivity and potential productivity. So in some ways competition from the existing stand is not a big issue if you graze it down tight and overseed in the late summer. Thats when a lot of our hay and pasture is established, starts to cool off, shorter days, rain is a little more likely. Spring is good to if the pasture is sparse, mainly because timely rains are fairly predicatable. Nitrogen management is important, I would hold off on manure or commercial N, other than a small amount, until the new seeding was up and growing, N early will just kick the existing stand into gear and really complicate the competition issue. The tillage/broadcast method also has a benefit because the tillage warms and aerates the soil and increases N mineralization from soil organic matter, but not so much that competition will be a problem.

Usually, I do not think there is a need for chemical weed control, as least in the context that we think about pasture improvement. The N. Dakota experience is interesting, but if I had the botanical diversity that they apparently are going for I would think the stand would be quite competitive with interseeded crops. Particularly annuals, I can’t think of a good reason why I would mess around trying to establish annuals in a healthy, well managed pasture. But I am not from there and there are a lot of local considerations and knowledge that comes into play in these decisions.

I have done some work with chemical suppression for pasture improvement and it actually increased weeds. Reduced competition for the weeds as well as the grass and legumes. In really think it is best to tune into natural processes and work with them, have some patience and remember that the pasture has to be managed year around to be productive and healthy.

I think horse pastures and cattle pastures probably have different methods for best management, I can’t really comment on horse pastures. Most of the horse pastures I see are holding and exercise areas for the horses. More and more cattle pastures are grass fields where cattle convert and add value to grass. Completely different mind-set.

[Tim Harrigan]

Drilling is better if you can no-till drill it in. Even a conventional drill with openers can work if you can get on the ground when it is not too hard and you do not have much residue to cut through. Better if the drill has presswheels to firm the seed in the ground. Dragging can be good too, covers the seed with some soil and residue to protect it from drying cycles. But discing exposes some soil and allows some of the seed to get down below the surface in contact with the soil. There is little investment other than your time and seed, so if the weather does not cooperate you do not lose much. But if you can keep some legumes established and manage your pasture you can double the forage production.

We do not have much Johnson grass in MI, but if it is like quack grass it would be OK for pasture ground that you always had animals on, or you could bring them in and graze when the grass was small. They will eat it later, but they don’t like it. The big problem is it out-competes the other more desireable species and like mono-culture… quackgrass alone. There are some grasses like italian rye or festulolium that are good pasture grasses but in no time go from being palatable to objectionable so how well they fit depends on how many animals on how much ground, etc. I like botanical diversity with plants that mature over quite a while. Annuals would fit in a double crop situation, after wheat or oats for instance, but I am not sure of the benefits of seeding annuals in permanent pasture.

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