[TaylorJohnson]

I like the 5/16 chains if they are not just cheap ones. I like to put a bigger hook on them like a 3/8 . I use the quick links to put them together , there the ones that come in to peaces that you put together and ping the tips down, to on each side. It makes a nice clean link, no pins or any thing to catch roots or what ever when you are stuffing them under logs. They are getting tough to find but I do have a sailer’s catalog I can order them out of. It does not seem like it would matter much but if I grab someone else’s chains and use them I sure notice the difference. I am pretty funny about my chains , I don’t let any one just use them. I know every were spot on them for the most part ( madger ones that is ) and I get really attached to them. Same with mauls and axes. I have a funny build I have long arms and short legs so I cut all of my handles short to match me. I hate to see just any one grab my Axe because they almost always misjudge and swing short then swing long and hit the handle . Don’t get me wrong I will let people use my stuff to be honest some times I cringe a bit LOL. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Thanks Scott ,
I don’t get that channel so I did not watch it . I was so sick when they filmed that to tell you the truth I don’t remember much of it , like a lot of last summer it was a blur. I was having cold sweats that day I do remember that . AT that point I had been sick a long time and did not know it, was pretty much running on instincts there. May be some one will have recorded it or something and will get to see it .
Scott I would appreciate any info that you could send me so thanks in advance . Hey that town that my friend is moving to out in CO is called Greeley ,,, at least I think it is . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Tim ,
Another rout I thought we could go would be teaming up with other nich type businesses that have similar struggles as we do . I am not sure what that would be but I am sure there are some out there that would like to hire a person to help a bit but can not because they are in the same boat as us as far as insurance goes. May be Black Smiths, Farriers, Gun Smiths ,…. I don’t really know but some of these types of things might be a place for us to fined allies in this.
I am in a bear hunters association and we help all kinds of hunters not just bear hunters . May be we could harness the power of horse trainers , ( some pun intended LOL. ) , Wood carvers ,…. like I said I don’t know for sure . Some of these things might sound odd but I can bet you a lot of them might think were odd for doing what we do,,, heck I know I am. I know there are other types of businesses with the same road blocks that we have we should find some of them and pair up with them as small nich market contractors and help one another out.
The best part about being small is they might give us some breaks or be more flexible because at this point we don’t matter as much.
It does not take as many people as some would think to move some of these politicians. A local news paper and a few craftsmen with there story might be a big push for what we want.
I have my reps on speed dial , we all should and we should all let them hear us and what we want. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

“And that is why I still say we need some kind of lobbying branch to see if we can get some of these things changed Lancek”

I think that this is a big part of the answer for sure. Hunters to it , gun owners and every body else so why not small scale loggers.
That system in Main does sound better than ares is for sure. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Loggers as a rule take more risk than they should have to in the first place . And with what blue80 said it is to educate but also to establish trust. I turn down a lot of costumers because I see that they will be a problem down the line . Carl I know that look your talking about ( the glazed over one ) and this would help weed people like that out and it might turn a few around. Once a land owner looks thing over and decides that he would just rather me handle it then no problem I will do that but it will not be for free. Time is money and it takes time to set on the phone and to stand on the landing with log buyers. If they are informed or I have tried to inform them the best I can they will be more comfortable with the decisions I make with were to go with the wood and why.
And I do think it is very important to teach the land owner about what we do and why we have to be paid what we are getting for are services. And if a land owner decides that they want to market there own wood then that is great but that is a decision that they have made and not a service to me . What I will have been paid for at this point is putting it on the landing a service provided to them.
Loggers have one of the oddest business models I have seen, they take more risk with less chance of return than most contractors in other industries would think of doing. If we as horse loggers follow the same plan then will be subject to the same cycles as they are. Loggers that buy stumpage are basically prospectors and are at high risk all the time . Weather , markets , injury, break downs, worthless contracts from mills , competing with the same mills that buy are wood,……. it goes on and on. When my Dad , Brother , and I all worked together we put out more log timber than any other outfit in WI , MI, and MN not pulp logs. We had any were from 9 to twelve 3 to 4 man crews working all the time. We did this for a lot of years and let me tell you I got a belly full of that game . We were prospectors betting on the markets . We bought land and all so that was prospect , the logs are always a gamble . What I do now is more service oriented and less prospective and my plan is to keep moving it in that direction . I don’t want to gamble my business or my clients property , I want us both to make sound decisions on what is before us knowing it could change. I don’t think it is right that the logger is expected to take all the risk, service work is safer and well informed land owner is happier . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Wavers are the only answer I think and every state is going to be different and most would not hold up in court. Scott we ran ares like you did when we were mechanized . Every cutter was a sub and all carried the own WC . We would have as hight as 25 cutters sometimes and all set there own hours and have there own stuff. The big problem here now is finding guys that will commit that hard to the job of cutting wood . They don’t want to buy the comp because it is to much money and I don’t blame them . They way I see it is they are regulating the profit out of logging on a small scale. There are a lot of mills here that wont buy your wood if you don’t have the proof of insurance and you training done and up to date ( state mandated training ) . It is a joke for sure. A wile back I cut my arm down to the bone , tendons , arteries the hole works was laid up for about eight months and do you know what WC paid me ,,,,,, you guessed it ZERO!!!! . I have paid this stuff for many years and it would not pay me a cent. Don’t get me wrong I did not expect them to see I just carry the dummy policy . This policy is about $900.00 a year and after every audit witch happens every year you get some back ( what a deal hey ) the only way it will pay is if you pay in ,,,, well last I heard it was about 33% on every dollar. It is impossible to do this in the woods and make any thing most of the time. They answer is wavers , why cant we enter contact with one another and have it be legal ? Answer is crooked politicians and insurance companies with deep pockets.
Up here it is tough to meet the requirements to me self employed ( by there standards ) so you have to be care full because just because someone has the own tools, sets there own hours , works what ever days they want does not make them self employed in court that is . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

In a sense it could help protect the logger as well . If a land owner is asked to sing something then they are more likely to pay attention to what there putting there name on then at the end of a sale they can not say they did not understand or they were mis informed the info is there in black and white with illustrations and at the bottom of the page is there X . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I sure plan on helping guide them but I think it is important to get them involved in the proses. They will not be experts by any means but they will at least know what a cord of wood is and about how many cords will be on a truck. For most land owners to see a twenty five cord pile on there own property ,,, well it starts to look like a mountain of wood. I just want them to have an understanding even if it is not perfect of what is going on.
I think most of them would like to know more but get frustrated with the hole process . This way when a mill says ” ya we want some 10′ white oak , we need it ” and three days latter when it is ready to haul they say well now we need 8’s and 12’s well the land owner will be upset with the mill and not me. As we all know there are a lot of things like this that happen all the time and more often than not the land owner is in the dark and confused.
One thing I would like them to know is that a contract with a mill is not worth the paper it is written on most of the time, not that you cant work with them but it is a constantly changing game. If you are going to work with a land owner in a long term sense than it is good to educate them as best you can . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Tim
I am glad that you , your boys, and horses are OK that could have been a real bad deal for sure. I have a cousin who was a good horse logger that lost his arm from a not to big a limb,, well he still has it but it is like a rubber arm it does not work. Him and I worked together since we were kids and it takes one bad day to change lives for ever . He was unconscience for 28 days in a trauma center . One of the stoutest naturally strongest men I have ever known and a maple limb of about 4” diameter and 5′ to 6′ long hit his arm so hard that all the muscle came off of the bone along with the nerves and arteries.
He still works in the woods ,he has a old iron mule forwarder that he runs now ( with one hand ) . He is going to get that arm taken off when break up comes this year so he has time to heal wile it is muddy and he cant work any way. He says there is a place in Madison that will take his arm put it in a room and beetles will clean it slick. He says he is going to get knife handles made out of it for me , his boy, his brother and my brothers boys. The Dr. told him he could not do that but Charlie argued with him and I guess he can. So come next fall I will have a human arm bone handled knife LOL but I would rather have my cousin back with 2 arms of course. If I were to list the injuries that my family has taken though the years it would take up a big page ,, it is sure easy to do.
For some time now I have been using the plunge cut and directional felling and that takes a lot of the danger out of it and if my cousin would have been using this method he would not have been injured. Tim I am glad to hear that you are alright I really am , when I seen this thread I got a little bit of a knot in my gut for you until I read it . Take care and be careful. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Donn,
I would love to see that mule and I look forward to seeing how you do take care and be safe. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Carl,
This is a great point , some of my costumers just don’t get the warm fuzzies from the horses and there just not that wound up about the environment. They do care about there woods and how it will look now and down the road. They are also concerned about there investment as far as there land goes in the over all timber , resale, wild life, and a lot of other concerns. The best part of the draft powered is the flexibility of the animals and what they can do and the flexibility of who you can market your services to. It is what makes since for most private land owners , it is in there best interest to use draft powered contractors ( with the right mind set ) to do the work that needs to me done. Some one that is concerned with the environmental aspect of things we can take care of and some one that wants to get the most out of there property in a long term investment we can do that to. Managing for wild live is a big thing up here in WI , we are well equipment to handle all of these things better than most. Leave the 2000 cord clear cuts to the guys that are mechanize out fits that is what they are good at. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Carl ,
Thanks for including me but I am in WI ,, GO PACK. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Hey it looks good , and good luck to you . I would watch that free visit though because you are likely to get a lot of people calling and it could get real busy as far as the visits go . Your time is your money and you should get paid for it . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Jason this looks good to me, I would say that Tim Carrol could be the man for marketing and exposure. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

yes Taylor Johnson

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