[TaylorJohnson]

Great pics Carl, How many horse power is that tractor? That is some nice looking country you guys live in out there. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Scott you hang in their man that weather sounds rough .;) Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Scott you hang in there man that weather sounds rough .;) Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Carl , this sounds like a cool project. It would be nice to have enough guys living close enough to do more stuff like this . The best of luck and I will be waiting to hear more about this project in the future. I think that is a good set up you are talking about using with that diversified a bunch of equipment their wont be much you all can’t get done efficiently. I often think about working with more teamsters and what can be done. I have worked with other teamsters but never long enough to become as efficient as one could be I think. Hey Carl good luck again and post lots of pics. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Tim I know it is hot down there , I spent a lot of my youth in MO mostly in the summer. I promise you it is not that hot here but I am not acclimate to the heat like you get down there. There were lots of mornings when I was a kid down there that I would get up early to go fish and the sun would just pop up over the hills and that steam would rise like smoke and the sweat would start to roll off of my head . I was just used to it back then , it would take me a while now. As far as being up here I take the heat better than most and I think that is from living down there off and on a good part of my life but I would rather work when it is about 10 degrees or so that is good logging weather. I have to take time to drink if I do not I will be hurting for sure ,, but at least my boy will get a laugh out of it LOL . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Phil i like to keep it to 150 or less steps if I can it is just that it seems like I fill my spots faster then is efficient for the patch I am cutting . If you are stringing them out on a trail or road start by putting your logs as close as possible with out blocking your trail then just keep moving up keeping your piles as tight as possible. Just leave enough room to walk buy with a skid with each deck you make. watch for your skids to grab logs that you have brought out as you go by ( more of a problem in smaller pine ) . You can also use your better judgment and put some of the heavier skids or logs closer and walk a head with some of the smaller ones. Some times when I am skidding this way the piles have a bulge at the beginning and start to tapper down as the distance gets longer. I don’t know if what I am saying is making any since with out showing so I hope I am not just sounding confusing. One more thing measure your own stride , I have a short stride compared to most people so 300 steps for you could and more than likely is much farther than it is for me . And don’t just build you first pile as big as t can be right off or else you wont be able to swing your logs in for your next pile tight enough. put 5 or 6 lengths of skids out in a line and build them as you go and as is convenient for you and horse/mule. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Phil one thing I do is when I am ground skidding wood and want to keep my distances reasonable. I count my steps as I am skidding , not every skid but once in a wile to see how far I am going . When I come out and I am walking 300 steps I know I have went about 600′ . My strides are about 2′ with out a lot of exception. When I hit that 300 steps I start to figure on a closer place. Check your stride and see what it is and use that as a rough way to figure you skids , I can walk a job make a few notes and have a good idea of what I want to do with out a lot of hassle. If your terrain is rolling you are walking farther than a map will say . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Phil , I know it could work the only things that are going to hold you back finding men that can run horses well enough to get something done and you liability and workers comp issues. The insurance is all that is holding be back right now from putting some men to work. Men with horses cut all the white pine to speak of off of Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota back in the day so I know you and five other guys with a loader truck can do a 1000 easy enough 🙂 .
Like I said the insurance is all that is holding me back. I have a lot of young guys that would love to come and work for me . These guys might be a little rough around the edges but hell historically a lot of logger are. They would thrive in the bush working animals and I can work with them , they would be to tired to get very rough at the end of a 10 hour day lol. I would like to take on big jobs and work a 5 plus man crew with the straggler here and there but as it is I can not . If you got access to 5 men and horses I would say go for it . I take it you don’t all have arches so try to keep your skids to about a 500′ average and remember every time you touch that wood you loose money,, this is true with all logging but man alive! it is harder felt in horse logging. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Phil , Will they let a truck load off of that black top road? . How many guys do you have working out there with ya? Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

That is one of the main things I like about the horses is that they are so versatile. Logging ,plowing snow/dirt , riding ,,,, there is so much that you can do with them.
Carl that is one of the biggest things I am working on right now is to have things to be doing that pay even if I am not in the bush.
I use to buy a timber/ land and resell it but the guys and the crews I liked to work with are out of the game or struggling pretty hard right not . If I put a grew on a job I have to be able to trust them to do it right and not steal. I would love to put more horses to work in the brush but the insurance rates are to high. I am going to be making some calls this week to see if we can get the ball moving to change that a bit . We did get some weight limit laws changed in our favor this year so the trucks with six axles can haul 98,000lb year round and all state roads. Some states you can have up to 5 employees with out having comp on them , that would be nice. To be a horse logger you have to be able to think out side of the box to stay a horse logger and you have to be willing like that old fisherman said to get up early and work till dark. There is an old Viking saying” If you want another mans life or land you must wake early. No lamb for the lazy wolf “.

[TaylorJohnson]

It is good to talk on here for sure and at times I think about what it would be like if we all lived a little closer , boys we could put on one hell of a log show , I know we could.
Scott we had a big fella that worked with us like that to . He just would not take a bath. He was a fare worker and could lift about anything in the woods the did not have roots on it but man he stunk. My dad told him one day ” you better clean up or you will have to ride on the back of the truck on the way home tomorrow . The next day came and in the morning it was hard to tell but once he had a days work on him he was like a bucket of rotted guts. We were working up in the UP of Michigan and driving about 1.5 hours one way. That night we were all loading up and he took his coat of and it would have made a maggot roll away. Dad said OK you dirty bastard on the back , he said Ken it is to cold to ride on the back it was winter in the UP so it was cold. Dad said I don’t care your riding on back, he said I ain’t ridden on back and started to get in the truck . Dad said get on the back or I will wear this ax handle out on you head . Every one got real quite and he looked Dad over and haply got on the back . It was funny after the tension cleared , he took a bath and came back to work and talked so sweat sugar would not have melted in his mouth . My Dad was only 5’6” but looked like a human pit bull that guy was 6’3” at least and was well over 300lb but I think he knew Dad was willing to keep his word . He looked funny bulled all up on the back of that truck. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Ya Rick I must have messed my math up last night. The videos are ok but the are not the reality of what a horse logging carer is , at least not what mine is . I know there are guys on here that know what the work is , this board is some what of a support group for me LOL. I always carry a few sets of clothes with me and I have had a few land owners ask me why I do that. It is so if I have to go some were I can change clothes . If I showed up at the store looking like I do in the bush they might call the law on me :). I also do a lot of my bidding or talking with land owner at night after work and Like to at least change my shirt so I bring a couple of gallons of water along just to wash my face and upper body put on a fresh shirt and I am ready for business or at least from the wast up I don’t look like an animal. I have had a few land owners tell me that when they first seen me walk up to the door they did not know if they should open it or not LOL, they said this of course after they got to know me . When time permits I will dress up a bit to do my door to door visits but if time does not I have to make due and that means 2 gallon jugs of water and a fresh shirt. Another thing I find is that on my off days I am working on buy business in some way , all the time like I tell people it is a life style . I do hunt and fish but man there is a lot of business to take care of every day. I do love it though and I do love driving a good team , when I am not on a day like today when there is a down pour I am thinking about things like , this is one more day I can not drive my team and they only last so long and I can not wast my time with them some day I will miss the hardest day I ever had in the bush and miss even my most miserable horse / mule . I think about things like this and it makes me appreciate what I have , money is one thing to me but life is what motivates me not the green backs. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Mitch ,
That is about right , it don’t seem like it would be but it is . Most crews up here would get in about 38 weeks of work time in that is about 266 days. You all more than likely get a lot more rain and bad weather days . We always worked very hard to and always did find break up work so we could most of the time get though that with out much down time.
Now we never stooped and figured out exactly how many days but I bet it was close to your 200 but think we may have gotten more in because are weather might not be as wet as you guys out there.
We did not have the quotas so my Dad pushed very hard to produce and we could most of the time sell it all.There was an old logger up here that use to say if you make your self put in 30 hours a week on the job no matte how bad the weather is you will produce wood and make good money. Know he did not mean to work in the rain all the time but to go there and be on the job even if you just read a book . His theory was that if you were there and it cleared up or you could stand it you would work , if you were at home and it cleared up you could not. I think he has a good point.
to average that 3 cord a day with a horse is pure work , some days you might get a lot more but there will be those tough days or long skids or what ever to show you that your just not that good LOL . My Dad and Uncles had a better average but they just did not have long skids . The cut stumps low or bull dozed roads to get a truck in to make it a good skid. The trucks on average were smaller then and truckers had more sand then to I think. I shoot for more but man it is tough to get past that 3 average . I can go a stretch and bet it but sometimes you feel like you might drop over LOL .
And you said it right when you said to get that amount of time in you worked cold and wet a lot of those days. We had a lot of guys quit us when it got wet , we would just put on rain coats and go as long as we could stand it one time a guy walked off the job and called my Dad and said ” hey I just ain’t that mad at those trees to work in that weather.
To someone that has never logged it might not sound like a lot of work time but most of them would not want to even follow a logger that put in that many days in the bush let alone work them . Loggers sure earn their pennies , and I say pennies not just in jest bu because most of the time that is what is left 🙂 . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

My Dad and Uncles use to haul horses the same way . I think there is a pic of one of there old trucks on my web site . They did the same thing backed up to a bank and loaded them up and unloaded them the same way. I wish it was more like it use to be as far as what you could haul wood on and horses in ,,, well just every thing. Common since is being replaces by big ,faster , and dumber every day. I jut got a letter from the dot today wanting $75.00 for something or other that has nothing to do with me or what I do but they have decided to fleece us some more so they will. A dollar here a dollar there next thing you know they have it all and we have nothing but to know in our minds that they will want some more real soon so you better not ideal to long .
I wish contractual law still meant something in this country , if it did I could put at least 5 guys to work next week but it does not so I wont. Here I have the greenest game in town and they will not let me grow,, like I said big, fast , and dumb that is how they want us to work . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I think being able to see the lay of the land and how to put your trails in is one of the biggest things modern loggers are loosing. Knowing how to start a job is as important as any thing you can do in the wood, it will be the difference of being productive or not. Being able to look at a job see how the hill , swamps, ravines , wood ,,,,, all lay out is very important. It is not as important when you are using machines that whey 50,0000 plus pounds.
Even some of the had cutters I see today just do not know how to lay out a strip , they work way harder than need be. That is one of the things I like about working horses / mules in the woods you have to work with nature to get anything done. If you fight it you will loose when using horse or mules. Taylor Johnson

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