[TaylorJohnson]

I have a good friend that is an horse trader and does well at it , he happens to be Amish and has nice stuff to work with . He has a couple pioneer carts with all the bells and whistles . When ever I am there I am wishing I had half of his stuff. I am going to try and show him this rig of yours , I know he will like it. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

That is a good looking set up you have there . I would like to see it work sometime. I like all the things you can by for the pioneer carts. how does it seem to be holding up to logging? Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I have wanted to rig up some skies for my arch just to see how it would do . I think it would be fine I just wonder how it would be on a brushy job. The shoes do give the horses more confidence in there job . If you run them with out shoes long enough they will start to tender foot around on hill and starting hard pulls. I figure why not take advantage of the slick ground and pull more material by giving my team/ horse an advantage of traction. I know it can be done with out shoes but all things being equal traction beats slipping . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Man Joshua I would love to see that team work , it sounds like you hit the jack pot with them. I think that is a good amount of wood to be getting out. Can you post some pics of them . Thanks in advance ,,, a video would be great. I know I have thought about having a smaller team of horses ( I was thinking Fjords ) to work with and also ride. I have seen some good Halflingers but have never owned any but I would love to work a good pair sometime. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Joshua,
I would get an aggressive shoe as soon as there is snow and ice to make them loose traction and slip. If one freaks out put him in a stock and tie his foot up, if he keeps freaking out tell him to knock it off and go have some coffee until he is done :). And if they are kickers don’t use cleats on them just use the drill tec it is not as bad as a cleat to be kicked with.
As far as getting a bigger team goes it all depends on how the team you have is working , are they able to get the job done, do they seem over worked or are they getting less productive as the week goes on looking run down , what is the run of wood on your average job ? if they can handle most of them fine and you have the occasional job or part of a job that seems to go a little tough just figure if it pays to buy a new team or work though but if it is the opposite of this than consider a bigger team or harder pulling team . There are some advantages to a small team like less feed, easier to haul, getting around well , easy to feed … wait I already said that :). My Dad , Grandpa, and Uncles use a lot of small horses and mules in the woods and they put out more wood than I do most of the time. I had a Fjord that I use for awhile and he could skid like a machine , he was not big but I made a living with him.
As far as the other things you asked .. well I could not give you a good answer because I really do not know . I am better at tearing things up than building them . I have made a few scoots and what not but it was always from what ever I had laying around the house and they were not that good at all. Most of them got tore in half in the woods one I still have and I wore the runners off of it one break up but even that one was nothing to speak of .
How big is your team ? Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I can see the points and understand the reason behind the law but it comes down to if we are free as Americans to inter into contract with one another with out government interference . If both parties understand the risk
it should be up to them. Like a lot of other things it started out with good intentions and ended with powerful people with money manipulating the law to favor them and shut out smaller competitors. I am free and do not want the government to tell me what I have to do . I take this risk every day by my self , my comp does not cover me if I get hurt . When I cut my arm I did not get one cent from them yet I pay them every year. I am taking that risk any way so it is hard for me to worry about the collective good/risk when I have taken the risk as an individual for years… no one worries about my good / risk . The problem they have is that if I have ambitions or goals that might inter-fear with them in any way …. well then they pull out the care about the collective good of the worker when in reality I think they could care less or at least very little. It comes back to if we are free or not , can we chose or not.
This is something as self employed people that should be on our list of things to change because at this point contractual law means nothing in this country . Lawyers/politicians have perverted the system to suite who pays for there lake homes and posh lives. There is no caring just a money power grab we all have to realize this , it is not political just a fact . If we do not have freedom to run our businesses and lives as we see fit we are all done… well I suppose we can all click along for a few more years like we are going but we will not and can not grow. The fact is that there are only so many people that are going to do what it takes to start a business and be self employed the rest want to show up and do a job . This is fine it takes all kinds but as it is now we can not operate in this fashion. Russia and China have more freedom than we do in the since of business today…. just think about that . We better get a handle on this and fast. Boys there is only so much room for horse logger demos and what not , we have to be able to really function if we can not we will not no matter how bad we want to. We can discuss all the technique in the world and if we do not have the freedom do implement it into real situations then it does not matter. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

The way it is set up if they want to give you grief they can if they want to find something wrong they will. On almost any job things go on that could make them say , ” well he was acting as your employee for this reason or that reason ” . Unless someone is a full functioning self employed logger it is hard to turn him into a sub if they start to dig into the situation. When my Cousin lost his arm it was 2 years in court but they did it .
What we have to do is not say how can we operate with in the law? but ask is the law they want us under lawful or not? All self employed people have to tell these politicians and there lobbyist to get bent.
They recently told us at a meeting that a man and his truck , chain saws , and other cutting gear could not be considered independent contractors. So now there trying to say that even if he has his own insurance , equipment , comes and goes as he pleases he is not to be considered an independent contractor. There reasoning was that he did not have enough invested…. now they get to decide how much a man needs to invest …. This is not a free country any more and most of the laws are to give tyrants power over us not to protect or help us . We have to figure out how to get our God given rights back under our Constitution . We let them do this to us , they do not have the right to.
Well now I am going to skid logs and I am running late …. I will be back to help solve the worlds problems tonight . 🙂 . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I do not know the answer but I am sure sick of not being able to do as I please with my own business. People are not hungry enough yet , they have to get to the point were enough is enough. Right now here in WI it is hard to do , to hire someone as a sub contractor in the woods. There is not enough money in what we do to hire someone and it is hard to find people who are committed enough to by there own insurance and get there own gear. Some things need to change in a big way and fast or we are all done … or at least on a serious level as far as logging with draft horses goes. If we can not grow because we do not have the work that is our problem but if we can not grow because of the laws and government … well that is more than a problem it is a crime. I would love to expand and grow , I have young guys that want to work but I can not afford to hire them.
A contract or waver between two men should hold up , it should not be the business of and attorney or politician to say if it should or should not. We have the work , we have a better way , we have the man power to do the jobs … so who can tell us we can not ? Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I think it is ridiculous that we have to have this talk in the U.S.A ,, The fact that contractual law between two men means nothing or is said to be or not to be … legal , legit or what have you is a crime against us that want to do work together. At some point we are all going to have to decide if we are free men or not … are we slaves.. or kids that can not decide if we should do business with one another. These laws make me sick. In WI wavers mean nothing and there is a set of requirements that one must meet to be considered self employed … I believe it is a 21 points of law. It does amaze me that we have to discus how we can legally WORK ! together … not how can we rob banks or how can we murder some one . We must figure out how we can legally get together and work on a simple log job … think about that . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

When you have Whearhouser , Ponssie, timber jack , ……. funding the studies then you are not going to get a straight answer on it . They are going to say silly things like a 70,000lb machine is lower impact than a 1600lb horse and that a 8′ wide machine is lower impact than a team of horses . Some common sence could go a long ways in this country. We have to get out of the thought pattern that the way to education is from school and a book… people are so disconnected that it is unreal….. there is no argument here . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I have heard this argument before about the soil compaction … what a joke. There is no comparison to the two methods. If you look at the square footage that gets run over and packed down by machines. first you have a wheeled or tracked harvester that has to drive out to a group of trees and then cut them , this machine weighs many thousands of pounds. Then a forwarder that hauls almost as much as a log truck drives all over the wood to pick up the processed wood,, this machine while empty is still many thousands of pounds , well throw 7 or so cords of oak in there and see what it weighs . These tracks and wheels impact every inch of ground it travels . You can walk on about any job up here in the spring when the snow goes and see tracks all over the woods were water is standing where the machine has been. The the thing that will get you is just how much of the ground has been travels on . A horse making tracks is not continual and water gets down between the hoof prints and breaks the trail down.
I was at a log a load for kids one time and an equipment sales man and some foresters were talking to me and one of them said ” Well your horses actually tear up more for ground and are harder on it than this machine ” … well this machine had one tire almost as wide and my team it had six 2 in front and four in back lol. He then explained to me how the pounds per square inch theory of how my horse was harder because his machine was less in the pounds per squ in category. I told him well with that theory a white-tailed buck running though the woods is harder on it than all of us and tear way more up , wouldnt you say? He had no answers and the other guys laughed a bit . Then I said well let’s do this , I will drive my horses to the top of that hill and back and you go there and back when I am done and we will see who does more damage. The start of the hill had a steep bank and was sort and there were a lot of young hard woods there as well .. needless to say he did not take the challenge because we all knew what would cause the most damage. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I use my logging arc to skid and I work by my self to , I have worked with guys before to cut this type of wood but most of the time I am alone. Some day I cut a tank and then skid, cut a tank and skid ,…. as much as I can . Then I take the horse back to the corral , put harnesses away , feed , grain , water. And most days I am cutting up skids in the dark after the horses are tended to. When my landing is full I hook up my loader to sort and pile. I try to get about 15 cord a week on this job.
Mr Alger, I read a story about you today and it was great. I also likes the video. I hope when I am 70 I can log like you. My Grandpa logged into his 80’s so I hope I can be like you guys . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I seen someone said something about Airedales . They are great all purpose dogs, that is what I have had for a long time .. well along with other dogs here and there . They can do about anything from hunting to herding , I hunt mine mostly. Another great all purpose dog is some of the Cur breeds like Mountain Curs and Black Mouth Curs. In the Curs it is very easy to find a worker because the folks that raise them are for the most part raising them for performance be it hunting or herding . They are very family oriented and are the one of the best all around dogs there is. You will have better luck finding the herding type in the Black Mouth Curs but all can and will. I went to the Airedales for a few reasons one of them being is that they are so tough , nothing bothers these dogs. It was about 20 bellow this morning and these guys were out in the yard playing with a Kong toy. And they are good with my kids as well . I have treed bear, coon, cats , and some other animals . They are not out to look for a fight but if they do get into one they can sure make a mess fast. I have a fenced in yard so it is not a real big deal for me but mine are hunter so if they are loose there job is to go and find … well coon is what I prefer and what they normally get . Since mine hunt they are not the best stay at home or go for a walk with the kids , they could be but I have them trained to go and hunt. So for a guard for the kids and ago for a walk in the woods dog I got them a Blue Heeler . They are good little dogs and are a convenient size and for there size are a lot of dog. My wife can throw him in the car and go to town and he does not take up the hole back seat but if they have to protect they can put the hurt on someone . He is about 8 months old and is already devoted to the wife and kids but is also friendly to visitors . I have had a couple of these Heelers to . What ever you get look at what the parents do at least , get a dog that comes from lines that can do the job not what is written in books . Some of the things they put in the written standards are just words , a lot of these dogs and there lines have not worked in many generations. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Rick I sell my popple pulp to a trucker that is paying me about $58.00 per cord on the landing. I sell by popple logs and bolts for about $120.00 dollars per cord delivered to the mill , trucking on that can run from $15.00 to around $23.00 … I am sure this will go up if or when this fuel keeps rising. I don’t even ask the feller that hauls my pulp what he is charging , he is a little more but as honest as they get and his checks are always good and he is there when he says he will be there. He is about 74 years old and has been logging since he was a kid so he is an old school type of guy and appreciates what I do with the horses because he has done it . My last trucker that I had retired due to heath and he was an old timer to and I sure miss seeing him on the landing and now his family moved him south so I can’t even stop and visit him any more . I hate the thought of losing the trucker I have now because i did not think I could get him full time because he is so busy but he worked me in.
That hemlock is some heavy stuff for sure , I was just talking with my cousin about it . He logs on the Menominee Indian Reservation in the WI, they have some of the best wood in the country. They are cutting hemlock down there that 4′ on the stump and better , he said they are hard to move and most get cable skidded out of the woods. The fellers love knocking those big boys down. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Do any of you guys have a pic of some steal sleds like that ? Taylor Johnson

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