[TaylorJohnson]

I have heard that name , I have an old friend up here named Dave Mortinson and i think I have heard him talk of that guy.
I have pics of white Oak down there 5′ on the stump,, they do got big whit oak for sure. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Lancek,
What part of MO are you moving to ? I used to live down there off and on a good part of my life. It is a great place and they have some nice wood. I have a good friend in Bunker MO that can cut more wood than any one I have ever seen. Well good luck down there I hope it works well. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Cousin Jack,
Take a rough figure of your time and figure up a bill at about $45 dollars an hour or so. When he starts wanting more money and telling you how much that fire wood is worth hand him the bill and tell him if he pays the bill he can have the fire wood and get rich on it him self. You and your team should be worth as much as a skid steer. Call some one up that does skid steer work and see what they would charge you to back fill a basement or level your drive way, I bet you would be lucky to get them there for $45 dollars an hour. You are worth that with your team ( if you know how to run your team and are efficient in the woods , witch I assume you are) . All of that extra work you have to be careful on or else they will work you to death for nothing.
I have told land owners that I wanted 40 or 45 and hour for my work ( that is not just teamster work that is chain sawing to ) and if they buck I tell them , well if you want I will work for tip you pay me what ever you think it is worth at the end of each day but you have to be there to watch me work. If they can set out there all day watch what I go though see me sweet out a gallon or 2 of watter and not think it is worth it then that is fine . I have never had any one take me up on that but if I ever do I will put my work ethic and abilities up against there conscience any time. You have to get paid, I know it is hard at times and I to am willing to work for much less when I am broke but working for nothing is a bad habit that a lot of loggers fall into. When they bring up that bizz about piling brush say that is not a problem at all I charge $30.00 an hour for that type of work , I can take it out of your stumpage or I can give you a bill at the end of the week,, don’t miss a breath and say now you don’t have a problem paying a weekly bill do you if so let me know and I can break up the time I spend pilling so as not to cut you short. Just some ideas . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Hey Lancek, I have been by there a lot of times, right by your place. I don’t know if any one is using horses to log right around there. I have talked to a guy in that area that has some interest in logging with horse and has logged some with them ( I think that is what he said ) . He is a pretty good guy and sounds like he knows horses well I think he is running a carriage riding service in Rice Lake now days does weddings to. Looks like he has nice horses and fancy equipment . Were do you live now? Taylor Johnson
PS. do you know Harvey Kline ? he lives down there and fixes tracking boxes for us also sells tracking collars .

[TaylorJohnson]

Hey guys how about Jack Pine and balsam for limbing 😮 not fun. Taylor Johnson.

[TaylorJohnson]

Jason,
I called that feller and he never did get back with me so I finally quit calling but I am glad I did not go if he is done. I pick a lot of mushrooms in the spring and fall. In the fall I can pick huge amounts of sulfur shelfs and they are good eating. I never have tried to sell any because I give a lot of them to folks that like them ( mostly older folks ) . I have picked over a hundred pounds a day before. I have also considered peeling some of the pine that I have been cutting for value added products . Lots of cabin building going on up here ( near Hayward WI ) , well not lots any more but some. And that is were I am living and working right now about 15 miles from Hayward WI. I had a meeting with a man to day that buys logs for Bessie Forest products and he gave me a price list for red oak and hard maple and it sounds about like you all are saying about like 10 years ago or better but they are buying and that is good.
Hey Scott I just found out that a buddy of mine that I use to play ball with works for the forest service out in Colorado some were. I talked to him the other day on line but not much we are going to get in touch though. May be you know him.
Mr. Alger , if you don’t mind me asking what will they pay out your way for a man to cut and skid with horses for a contract like you taking? Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I worked with one old timer that used them. He was a good logger and new his stuff so I don’t doubt that there OK but I have never used them. In pine he did all his limbing with an AXE , he would drop them with a saw and then finish the trim job with an Axe. How are those wedges on a chain compared to the plastic? Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

It is hard to get someone who has been a production cutter for years to learn to slow down enough to cut proper for a horse and like you said if your not doing what it takes to get those trees were they need to be then you might as well be pulling them out with a 648 john deer. You take a cutter who’s job it was to put an average of 20 cords a day on the ground and he seas know sense in taking the time to put a tree down were you would ever need more than a cut club and a single wedge that would just be a wast of time to him. If he did something like that there would be a skidder breathing down there backs in know time. The big difference is that skidder can make up for poor placement just with pure power , ripping it up a hill tops and all what ever it takes to produce. I have had a hard time with cutters truly understanding the difference between a horse and a machine. Instead of stopping there thought on what there doing and relearning they try to modify what they know and in my opinion it is a different world ( horse VS machine) and some things transfer but most should be left behind with the skidders. If it takes 20 minutes or more it is better to take the time and put that tree in the right spot because if it is in the wrong spot it could take you a day to clean up the mess and maybe cost you a job. We use to cut off an average of 80 acres a week with are crews each crew of 3 men were suppose to av 100cords per 5 day week. That is 20 cords per day and av that there are a lot of days you have to hit that 40 45 cord mark. Now you take these guys that were pushed that hard for production and try to tell them to carry a 8lb maul and they just think you are nuts , they move way to fast for that. A friend of mine told me once that in horse logging fast is slow and slow is fast and if any one ever told me something true it was that . Proper placement is a huge part in getting any thing done and making what we do worth wile to the land owners even if it takes a long time to do it . I think this is a topic that gets over looked a lot buy folks in talk of horse logging . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I usually carry two small and two large wedges with a 5lb felling Axe. I do have more in the truck in case I need more left and I have cut ones out of maple and iron wood before in a pinch. I also have an eight pond splitting maul that has the handle cut off that I use if I really need the smacking power. I cut the handle off all my axes and mauls to be the same length . I do this because my arms are very long for my body I am only about 5’9″ and my arm span is longer than a guy that I work with that is almost 6’4″ . And to top that off my inseam is only about 29″ or 30″ , , yeas I look like a brush ape 😀 . One old boy I used to work with from FL used to tell me I looked like a little white gorilla when I worked. Well any way that is why I have the short handled maul . Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Carl the cart works well but if I were going to build one it would be different. It would be smaller and I think I would set it up to be pulled by my arch. The one I have now is wood worthy and in all reality it would be fine on the roads but the DOT up here would slay me for hauling with it. There is also a lot of tong weight on my cart when it is empty even, and it has a fifth wheel hitch but at the level that it is at it hooks up at bumper level for a 1 ton truck . It is versatile but I know it could be more versatile. The big logs have always been the easy part of it as far as pilling and production goes but the small stuff is the problem. I have even thought about one of those ATV style loader carts for my forcart. I think they carry about a half cord or so and a team could pull them most places and should be able to handle a far amount of grade. tire chains and break parts would be easy to come by both of witch you need on one. If you don’t have breaks and chains on them in the winter you have a log loader on a sled.
I will try and get some pics or film of the front end of mine so you can see how it works. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

I have a problem with truckers to , same thing center mount loaders are most common up here but there are some truck and pups but even they don’t like to sort wood to much. The guy that trucks for me now is 76 years old and he is the best around I would say. He is slow but he does a good job and he is use to horses from back in the the day. One time I asked him how many years he had been hauling logs , He sat there a bit and started to say a number figure a couple of times then he stooped and said well put it this way as long as there has been a truck that would haul logs i have been hauling them. His name is Roy and He started hauling logs when he was 14 years old. I will be sick when he quits not just because he is a good trucker but because I will miss are visits on the landing. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Hey Carl glad to be back on here ,
I have the same thoughts as you in the fact that a forwarder is a hard thing to work into an animal powered biz due to the cost of it and the amount of production it takes to justify having one . I would say with a lot of them ( at least the way I operate) it would not pay to buy a knew one. I happened to get a good deal on this one so I moved and got it. It is very good on fuel and I use it a lot like you use a scoot. I can say this my most enjoyable part of my work is when that thing is parked and I am using my arch or ground skidding logs out. I am thankful for it but I do like using the horses more than running it , there I times I miss pilling logs with Mark ( one of my geldings) because it was a way to really work close with my horse . At the end of a day of that kind of work you are close with your animal but I still get that in other work that I do just not for that particular part of the work. I really think it goes buy the region you work in and the type of work you do but up here I think i would ideally like a little smaller loader cart. One that I could hook up to my arch and pull. For me the big logs were not the problem it was the smaller stuff that I had to handle all the time , the 10” to 4” type stuff. So if I had a smaller loader with a smaller motor on it that got even better gas to cords I would be better off. I cant complain with what I do have but as you work something you can always think of some way to improve it or the system I should say. Carl I had been having the poorest luck the last year or so before I got that loader with finding good landing spots for wood , like you said something with a bank or hill or what ever. It was up hills both ways and 40 miles to get there if you know what I mean 😀 . I think in this part of the country for this to work well there has to be a balance with man , animal , and machine and I think that is the order to . I would say that time wise I am about Man and Animal 75% to 80% the rest is with the loader ( I am putting the chain sawing in with the man part of the equation even though it is a man using a machine) with a smaller loader I could see that balance evening out a bit more.
I have some ideas about some small type scoots that you would not have to unload that would be fast , a friend and I are working on building one here. It could end up being very fast I think. I am not a real good typer so I will wait to try and explain them ( I am setting here eating with my almost 2 year old boy malling me a bit trying to type this ,, that is how it goes for me I guess ) but I would like to see what you all think of it and to see if you have heard of it or not. Well I will talk to you soon and once again glad to be back. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Hey Scott good to hear from you as well. I do agree with you about the use of a forwarder it makes things much easier. We use to have a lot of equipment as well , any were from 9 to 12 , 3 to 5 man crews working at a time . We ran valmet, Timber Jack , Franklin forwarders most of the time . We had John Deer , Timber Jack , and Tree Farmer Poll Skidders , John Deer processors with fabtec heads and one small case possessor with a hann head. I would not give you $5.00 for the hole lot if I had to keep it all and work it all,, just to find the men to run that much equipment and the effort it takes to get them there and keep them out of jail and to keep them from killing each other was always a huge task ( at least the young guys it was ) . But like you said a god forwarding system is I think very important to modern horse logging. Before I got mine I was hand pilling all my wood , the wood I could not lift was pilled by block and tackle . Just a real slow process and very tough work. Last Fall I was hand loading a truck sometimes twice a day plus pilling limbs and tops plus unloading the truck . On those days I was handling around 27000lb and that is just wood that got put on a truck and off a truck not brush and the bigger logs that I had to deal with. That my friend will make you fell like falling though the door at night , sometimes my arms would feel numb or something. I can pile that with my loader like nothing and in know time , heck those days I talked about before I got my loader were days I started hand loading in the dark of morning and would be unloading as it was getting dark or when it was dark at night. You said you thought hydraulics were a God sent ,, well i don’t know if they all are but mine sure was :). Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Thanks Jeniffer it has been a little tough but not to bad like I said lots of stretches with know days off and all but that just makes you really appreciate the time you do get off. My wife is great about it all she brings the kids out to the wood with a meal so I can spend time with every one as well. My little girl loves to help me with the horses ( feeding watering and what not ) and once in a wile I let her drive them around the landing , with me helping of coarse. When these wood markets turn around I wont know what to do with my self. right now a good part of the wood I cut and skid I am making about $65 per cord on, I sure with it were more but that is what I can sell so that is what i am cutting.
The horses are doing great , that team in the pics is Mark left side and Dan right side . I have had Mark for some time now and he is really a good horse. When I got him he was 4 and had never been in the woods but had worked in the fields some but you could tell he was a smart one . It took him just a little time and he was a hard one to beat. If I could figure out how to do it I would keep Mark in the house with me I love that horse. Dan I just got this spring to replace an old horse that I retired named Sam. Sam is a hole other story. Like Mark Dan had never been in the woods but seemed to have a good mind so I bought him. I was not as easy with Dan because he was older than Mark was like by 7 or 8 years. We had some scary moments will he was getting use to things but nothing to bad. Now he is great, pulls like crazy and follows me any where. When I got him it was like he did not know what I was doing if I gave him affection he must not have gotten a lot but now he eats it up .
They are the best team I have owned at least in the way they step out together and the way they pull a hard load together. I will try and get some more pics up later these are just what I could put on here right now. Taylor Johnson

[TaylorJohnson]

Thanks Simon, as far as the arch goes it was built by a guy named Todd Eggler He is out of MN. It sure is a nice one it is , I made a trade with him to get it ( money is tight so a trade worked well ). The tires on the arch are Semi truck tires it gives it a good lift on a load. The loader is a nokka loader on a cart that was set up for a tractor but converted to be pulled by horses from some friends of mine that own a saw mill to the south of me. It works well , it has a fifth wheel type hitch on it so it turns very sharp , a Honda 24HP vtwin engine powers the hydraulics . It looks a little bit cobbled together but it is well made these boys are very talented fabricators. You should see the ones that they built to replace this on , they are pulled buy 5 to 6 a breast and have big diesel motors on them to power there hydraulics. Mine has rubber tires but there new ones have steel wheels. The best part about mine is how I can move it . I just put the stabilizers down pull the pin on the ball that is attached to the poll and tires , they drop down and I pull it out from under the hitch walk it to the back and get on my loader put the tires, poll , and axles in the back . Then I can back my truck up under the hitch lower it down on the ball put the pin in it and drive to the next job . It is heavy so I drive slow but it pulls good . If I had a bigger truck I could pull it 55MPH with out a problem but I drive about 30 with it on. If you left the front tires on it , removed the poll and put an implement tong on it you could pull it with a car if you really wanted to it really pulls nice. Taylor Johnson

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