[Robert MoonShadow]

Congratulations, my friend!!
[And way to go, Peanut!!]

<<< Um, there's something wrong with my computer... I don't see any photos of you and Peanut at work!!! >>> 😡

[Robert MoonShadow]

I saw something similar to what you two are referring to, in a copy of Rural Heritage. Sam Moore was identifying it (only part was there), to my eyes, the main part there looked like the “s”-shaped latch hook on snow chains for tires. I didn’t totally understand his description, but it seems that it was designed for exactly what you said – to hold back sleds, etc. on downhill slopes, and the latch was somehow designed to be able to easily unhook, as Carl suggested. How much chain are you referring to, for wrapping the runner? The entire length?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Nice scoot… thanks for sharing the photo!

[Robert MoonShadow]

They might have had young hid very close by – very young (newborn). Seen deer do this, and a feral donkey (burro). You might ask BLM – they’ve got the mandate on collecting data on these, so have volumes of info on mustang/burro behavior.
Very interesting behavior, whatever the cause.

[Robert MoonShadow]

@jenjudkins 7349 wrote:

ooooooooo I’m always looking for ways to reuse that baling twine, great idea!
Green beans, etc. –> Helpful hint: before taking them down, pull the vines off (as much as possible); that way you can compost them or feed them to your goats. (Lot’s of nitrogen/protein). Easier that way to seperate from the garbage-bound twine.

I can’t wait…those are by far my favorites. I have the late blooming oranges and yellows…it will be awhile yet.

When I get my own property (finally), I’ll be asking for some starts off of these, young lady. 😀

[Robert MoonShadow]

Thanks for all the ideas! I thought of the hood (bonnet) idea; saw an old Studebaker or DeSoto, and instantly saw heavier & more reusable substitute for my plastic toboggan. Never heard of a ‘playboat’, but will check it out. Mostly driftboats & jetboats around here nowadays. Bob H. –> Yeah, I guess you could say I live in the Salmon River country: I can cast into it from the edge of this property (I rent) during high water season… have to actually walk about 100′ to it now! 😀 In fact, I’m off to catch some salmon in just a few. I wasn’t sure if any sled device would need shafts to hold back on slopes or would just get in the way? I just viewed the dvd Geoff sent me of Greg Caudell’s logging & he didn’t use one, but his Belgians looked like they had to step pretty lively at times to avoid run-up. I’m still considering trying to figure out the numbers to downsize the walkingbeam logcart to fit a large standard donkey.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Carl; With this sled, are you thinking it to be used by a single or a team? I’m assuming a single, with your referrence to only 1/4 cord at a time? With it being on runners, would it need shafts {or a pole when using a team on it}? I don’t see how it’d work for backing, anyways (on runners), but don’t know if ‘run-up’ is a worry? I saw the photos you posted elsewhere, showing how you attach your pole/chains to the unit for manueverability… same/similar w/ shafts? Or would this application for this type of work preclude it? Using your suggested measurements for the runners & shoes, that gives it what? About 4-6″ of ground clearance for the deck?
And you other loggers out there: any suggestions, modifications or ideas? Any ideas on production that would 1) Increase safety 2) Increase productivity 3) Deter wood-pirates? {I’ve already mentioned the only thing I’ve thought of}. What about the choice of using a team, or alternating single donkeys after several rounds –> which tends to be more efficient & yet best for the animals? Considering the load weight-to-animal size ratio to be similar as a draft horse, how many hours can be reasonably expected in a day? Understanding that terrain, weather, animal fitness, etc. are variables to be considered, only a rough estimate is expected or hoped for. And thank you for your help.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Yes, Plowboy… thank you. As a newbie, I enjoy your comments & contributions. Some of it I take, some I expect I’ll take as the need arises, and some, perhaps not. But it’s valuable – not just in the quality of the information, but in the giving. Whether I or anyone else fully ‘take in’ what you say, it’s not as important as the fact that there’s another member of this online community (you) that is willing to offer insights & advice. You can’t accurately measure the gift of giving by whether or how it’s received… it’s a seperate action, of intrinsic value in and of itself.
That’s why I thank you.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Patrick; I think that when you start to worry and/or cater to the ‘what ifs’ of the ones you refer to, they’ve already won, to a degree. I truly believe that animals grieve, and have wide range of emotions… that if we choose to deny that as a ‘human-only’ capability, we are being elitist. But then, it does have some degree of influence on how I deal w/ my animals – but doesn’t control my way of doing things. If those w/ too much time & money on their hands choose to be ‘bleeding hearts’ types, I really don’t care – I’m going to do what I want. I don’t look over my shoulder, nor do I give them the influence in my life they seem to crave. I guess it’s an attitude thing; I’m doing nothing morally wrong with my animals, so I don’t fear others’ judgement of my actions… nor even accept it. I have never accepted PETA (or similar types) as an authority figure – nor will I. I also don’t consider what the folks in Zimbabwe might think, either.
As for people asking “stupid” questions & such: my understanding of the words ‘stupid’ and ‘ignorant’ –> ignorant means you don’t know; stupid means you won’t learn. If anyone asks any ‘ignorant’ questions, I view it as an opportunity to teach; if they arguefy, they’re not ignorant – they’re being stupid. If no one is willing to teach, then this forum wouldn’t even exist… and I’m very glad & grateful that the experienced ones here choose to take the efforts to teach an ignorant one like myself >>> and I hope to repay that effort by not being stupid.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Here’s one I did today;
The sight of a 1-eyed man wearing ankle weights to help shed some extra “winter poundage” as he weaves a pea net/trellis out of haybale twine. Same man, planting first row of each pea varity by hand (instead of his seed planter) just because he’s missed the feel of dirt running between his fingers. Same man mumbling & cussing because he knelt on a goathead – twice! {Those are nature’s equivalant to the barbs on a barb-wire fence}. Same man laughing as the robin lands in the row, looking for a juicy worm, as the kitten that’s napping in the sun 10′ away just glances at it & goes back to sleep.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Jen; I don’t know whatnot about eveners & such, but one thing I remember from my studying & asking is that there is a possibility of a slip-on neckyoke coming off – I don’t know how common it is (probably not too), but there’s a guy who advertises in SFJ that developed a latch to put on the tongue that prevents this, while still having the convenience of quick-change. Perhaps someone here has tried this?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff; You’re not being obtuse. That’s exactly what I have in mind, for the ‘smaller’ logs, cut into about 4′ lengths. However, much of what I can get is quite large (2 – 4′ thick) f or a donkey to be able to pull a very long log. I only split these rounds in half or so, at the truck, so I can lift them onto the truck.
Carl; Good points on the sled. However, I’m not sure what you mean by ‘wood shoes’? My idea to bypass the need of a landing or yard (and increased risk of theft) is to haul the donk up, spend that day falling & bucking to size, then the next using the donk to skid/load the trailer, hauling the donk out on the last load. This gives me 2 days away from the farm at a time, which is about right for length, while placing me in the woods where I can work from “can see to can’t”. I think a sledge such as you described would be usable for rounds, as well as for the 4-6′ logs of smaller diameter. Would you suggest some sort of metal on the bottom of the runners?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Geoff ~ I really ain’t so tough; it’s just got to be done. I’m not lazy – and I want my own farm, so I just do it. The wood I’m talking about on public lands is dead – must be, or you’ll get fined – if caught; it’s how the woodhackers get their name – and it’s been dead a while = I’ve dropped, cut, split and burn some all in the same day. It’s dry. I buck the stuff into rounds whereever it falls, and drag/push/roll/cuss it to the truck… that’s my point: I’d sooner have the donkey/small mule do the draggin’ & I’ll do the cutting, and we’ll both do the cussin’. :rolleyes:
I split it at home, but have considered dragging the woodsplitter in. But it’s a time game: I’d sooner get as much wood out asap & back home, where I can use the woodsplitter at my convenience in warmer climate. Geoff; as you mentioned in your pm to me, ‘off-road’ travel by vehicle is verbotten, and if the ranger sees you tearing up the woods w/ your atv’s wheels, etc. while dragging logs, he’ll make you stop… so there’s lots of wood sitting 100-1000ft. off the roads. {You can tell just how long the competition’s winch cables are}. I don’t bother w/ the really steep slopes, unless there’s prime stuff on the uphill side. I wouldn’t trust my ability to keep my animal safe while snigging on a steep slope, at this level of my experience (basically none). I’ve thought of packing, but I can get too much within the aforementioned distances to bother w/ it. I don’t think it’s worth the payload for only a couple of hundred feet, although I might be mistaken… sure wish I could see youtube, but dialup doesn’t work for video (for me, anyways). I like the set-up on Carl’s scoot – looks very effective. Carl, how wide is it? I’m thinking of that, with shafts for single, (sized for large-standard donkey), on a moderate slope… perhaps 1/3 of a cord?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Rick, Carl (and other loggers) – The comments on loggers viewing firewood sales ‘as a last resort’ – and the info that many are ‘hanging up their gear & getting wage jobs’, are half of my motivation for this thread in the first place: maybe through this thread, some loggers will reconsider that view, and will decide not to hang up their saws & work at a gas station (or whatever) –> and continue their (and their animals’) presence in the woods, where we need them to be.
And I truly believe that last statement: we desperately need thinking, caring men and women working in & with the forests. We need the same type of caring & thinking people on small farms, as well.
Perhaps firewood – whether as a sideline or stand-alone business – can help some of us do that?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Rick; Oh, no, no! I meant that’s how much wood is in the trees and/or left behind by the woodhackers –> and these rounds cut at 16″ lengths, some we had to split onsite because the mini-excavator couldn’t lift them onto the flatbed trailer! Mostly, though the trees are smaller (here’s showing my lack of logging terminology)… my chainsaw bar’s a 24″, and that’s about right for most trees I’m dealing with. I have only the one donkey right now; I’m sure as I add another to make a team, it’ll be sweeter, but for now, that’s the parameter for me. Sales around here are “split & delivered”… and prices are 40% higher (plus delivery charge) in Lewiston, 70 miles away.
Geoff; The large trucks I spoke of are what the typical hackers around here use, sometimes a 1-ton w/ a trailer. You saw my Datsun? I put 1/2 – 2/3 a cord of rounds on it & bring it out {no racks, yet}. This one patch I’ve got 30-40 cord in still, Bonner & I got the gravy stuff last year w/ the mini-excavator & flatbed equipment trailer… drove right up & were able to cut our way in. Now, it’s ‘rolling them rounds’ for me, this last season… and donkey-power is what I need, now – but am trying to figure out the methodology (I like that term Carl used). My friends up north by Emida (they’re in their 80s, used to rent that big spot from Potlatch, in Potlatch (company town = company name). Used to use a pair of horses for harvesting around there, ’til the one nutted up & committed suicide by rearing & falling over the 30′ bank (wasn’t a draft horse & no one knew why it did it). While I was in prison, he sounded them out for me, said they seemed still interested. Around here, Bennett Industries (the mill/land company in G’ville) has interest, if it’s done professionally (at least in substance, not neccesarily by a company). Oh, and in the past, when there’s any real distance to haul the rounds (40+ ft.) I’ve used an old toboggan & rope… and the only ass doing the hauling was, as you can guess; ME!! {Um, kinda how I got the idea for using the donkey} 😮 Actually, it’s what I had intended to use: one donk & a toboggan (modified), but this thread’s suggesting better ways/equipment. By myself, doing it as described, I can often get a cord a day out of the woods, in rounds.

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