[Robert MoonShadow]

You’ve summarized this whole thing up very nicely, Erika. 🙂 Geoff: A seeder…never thought of that one – it’d be great, too.
Erika – whether or not Pioneer does anything with this, I just want to thank you for making the effort to help improve things for us all.

[Robert MoonShadow]

All good advice, here = thanks, guys! Jenny-Mae’s issue seems to be the bit – she halters up very well…and I’m always very gentle w/ the donkeys’ ears – they both love the scratching! Manipulating the ears only gives some trouble – I think the snap-over (as with the halter) will fix that aspect. I’m going to try the mollases & snaps on the bit…am ordering mullen bits (my mentor usues them exclusively on her 4 mammoth donks & has great response from them). From what I’m understanding here, a halter w/ a bit would work, to experimant on whether blinders are needed? If nothing else, all this concentrated attention these two are getting lately sure has improved their attitudes towards working/dealing with me.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Erika…are they (Pioneer) considering a light riding (ala harrow cart) or a walk-behind thing? (Or both?!?) If it’s a walk-behind, I’d suggest some type of fold-up or swivel-into-place (as w/ a trailer tongue jack) transport wheels. also, if a w-b, perhaps a small scraper-blade and height-adjustable handles would be nice for people of varying heights – or perhaps similar to the Prommata type? When you mentioned the 36″ width, I thought “Why not make it adjustable, too?” – from, say 30″ to 42″?
As you can tell, I’ve spent some time creating an idea of what I’d like – and even moreso, after reading this post! 😀
Speaking only for myself, I’d be real excited to see some things geared for walk-behind use w/ a smaller, single animal = donkey/small ox/pony/etc. For instance, a bed-maker to make raised beds. Especially if I get this land deal – lots of the potential gardens/beds are old skidding spurs that are long and (of course) narrow enough to make using riding equipment problematic.
Of course, it’d have to be priced so that a small farmer could actually afford it, too. *sigh*
Please, please keep us posted on what, when or if they decide to do anything, will you?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Putting the bit on the halter seems to work much better for getting her to take the bit…I’m pretty sure it’s the “over-the-ears” thing and perhaps the blinders on the pony driving bridle. Actually, with these lg-standard donks, it’s more about getting them to lift their head up high enough to put it on, rather than lowering it – BTW: your horse sure looks good!
Took the last two days to work on “trailer-less trailer training”…starting with a sheet of plywood on the ground. Kinsey will load right up in a real trailer, but balked on this for about an hour. Jenny-Mae figured to leap over the plywood to get to me & the apple bit! Jenny-Mae takes an hour or better to load in a real trailer. Kinsey still hasn’t figured out how to go forward after being backed, but I can see her trying to figure it out. They’re not at all afraid of poles, chains, the plow or cultivator…:)

[Robert MoonShadow]

Yes – you’ve got my idea already – and it could be useful to me if it was on a forecart, too – IF it’s scaled to use by a team of large-standard donkeys or ponies. It’s really hard to find equipment that’s usable for those of us who don’t have the large drafts; even some of the “Haflinger/Fjord” -sized stuff is pushing the limit in weight.
Another suggestion would be some sort of small logging-arch add on. That toolbar you suggested looks interesting, too, if it’s scaled down. That’s my main frustration = if it’s small/lightweight enough for a single or pair of donkeys, it’s usually just too weak to last, too. I need light, but sturdy – a real WORKING system. I know several people in just this general area that have BLM donkeys/mustangs that’d love to work up their gardens w/ them, if there was a system designed for them.

Most excellent post, Erika!

{Um, had to blink at that “Mr. MoonShadow” bit…}

[Robert MoonShadow]

Donn – Your “two-cents” worth is like most people’s ten dollars worth = as usual, you give useful things to think on…
🙂

I’m trying to evaluate whether I’m bypassing the bridle thing because I want to end up w/out blinders, anyways (saving an unneccesary step) or just trying to take the “easy” way out, by avoiding the ongoing confrontation w/ Jenny-Mae over the bit. I guess I’ll just absorb whatever advice I get here & experiment with both directions, and see what she’s got to “say” about it all, too.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Ixy/Rod/Jac –>
I’ve thought about that, myself (no bit), but never really got a difinitive answer on driving (as opposed to riding) with bitless bridle, when I asked before, on this site. As an experiment, I’m going to harness them each up (seperately) and try attaching the lines to the halter, and will post the results. Hopefully the more experienced members here will post and let me know if I’m heading for disaster (BEFORE I reach it!). I’m very inexperienced in driving, still, but between the donkeys’ innate sensibility to handling stressful situations & the fact that I’ve observed others at work, pulling contests & driving horses/mules/oxen/donkeys that it sure seems to me that it’s their voice & relationship with the animal what actually provides the control – not the bit. Because it seems to me that if a 1800 lb. critter decided to take off, it’d take one hell of a strong set of arms to pull that head around to a stop.
At least, that’s what it seems to be, from what I’ve seen.
After all, am I wrong here, or isn’t the bit supposed to be a tool of comunication, and not really for control? I guess what I’m trying to express is my idea that true control comes from our mind & the relationship we’ve built with that animal(s) – as reference, that’s what I get from reading Carl, Jason and others, here.
So, my question would be; is the bit a true safety factor, or more based on habit (it’s always been used)?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Larry – Good advice about the helper; but, alas, no one on this side of the mountain to assist. W/ Kinsey, she steps out alright, ‘cept once I have her back, then ‘whoa’, she just doesn’t start again unless she’s “touched by an angel”. W/ Jenny-Mae, I’m not sure what it is: I struggled w/ her again today, paying attention to just when she starts to say “no way” = she lets the halter over, and the bridle is the type that buckles over the back (like a halter), but she just won’t take the bit without a lot of persuasion. Got her to take the bit & spit it right out (a little bit longer in, each time) but never got the bridle all the way on…when she finally kept it in for almost 30 seconds, I could see her fixing to spit it out & told her to (hoping to set it in her mind that it was MY idea) and praised her really well. I noticed she ducks her head real low when fighting it, so after I put it up, we worked on “gimme-yer-head” w/ just the halter on –> raising her head & turning it to me got a carrot piece & lovin’s – she started to like that, so I’m going to work it from there. As a contrast, I can completely harness/bridle/etc. her momma (Kinsey) w/out her being tied – even in the middle of the 26-acre pasture!

Hey Geoff! Glad you survived the unusually-mild Idaho “winter”! We’ll get together sometime this Spring, ayuh? If I get this land deal, perhaps we can make a weekend of firewood-logging/pasture plowing? (that is, once I get the harness in & get these girls to co-operate!

[Robert MoonShadow]

OldKat: He’s near Dallas.
I’ll post a new thread on the donks, today.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Yep! That’s the one! Unfortunately, I’ve received no replies after emailing them at least twice…I’m thinking it’s a language barrier. I’m hoping to find whomever it wasw on DAP that offered to translate for me, because I am very interested in this system. I’d like to get the designs for this, to have someone local build it, as I assume the cost of buying & importing it direct from them would be too exspensive.
Of course, if someone here at DAP was to start building these under license of this organization, I’d be first in line to buy! 😀

[Robert MoonShadow]

Hi. I’m just getting my 2 girls {1 is 52″/650 lbs./9 y.o. – the other is 50″/765 lbs. (needs to lose 100#) & 17 y.o.} trained up on their pulling…actually, with Kinsey (the mother) it’s a refresher course. I only have an old oversized harness I’m using for the basic ground-training while paying off the team D-harness I’m buying from someone on this site. I’m going after my long-overdue male down in Texas this spring, so there’ll be 3 to work with. I’m also in the process of making a deal with a guy that owns 160 acres of land here that was burnt in a major wildfire in ’07 = I log off & salvage for firewood – I get 20 acres. This is if we can agree on the price for the 20 acres/firewood value, etc.
Anyways, I’ll be doing this this summer in between the trailwork, then as I go full-time to farming next year, I’ll spend more time with this; I’ll gladly keep you all posted on it, perhaps start a seperate thread on it, if anyone’s interested?

[Robert MoonShadow]

Congratulations! It must be nice to have your efforts recognized as valuable by so many –> it’ll help sustain you during chores.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Plowboy: That’s too funny!

[Robert MoonShadow]

A couple of notes: donkeys’ hooves are trimmed differently than horses…and mules are about half-way in between (from my understanding about mules’ hooves). I’d reccomend contacting American Donkey & Mule Society for their excellent booklet on the subject – it costs about a dollar. Also, donkeys’ excess weight is often carried on the neck crest – if it’s large (or broken over), they’re too fat!
As mentioned, too rich of hay (forget the alfalfa), and they’ll founder…any weight-gain should be gradual & timothy hay is good for them.

[Robert MoonShadow]

Hey, great for you, ‘R’!!

Bivol; some of what you point out is pretty accurate…dpending, of course, on the donkey! No, you can’t work a donkey to death…they’re too much self-preserving to be used in battle, either. Most animals – including humans – respond to kindness & praise with a major increase in effort to please.

Donkeys are especially attuned towards attitudes, it seems. I know my attitude when I first walk into the pasture sure seems to be “read” by my donks, from clean across the 26-acre pasture. If I’m in a hurry, or agitated about escaped goats, or… they just “give me space”. If I’m in a good mood or feeling silly or singing, then they’re apt to “sing” and come nosing around just to see what I’m about. My donks are pretty independant-minded, yet over the last several months, they’ve decided that they like me…and although they’ll still play ‘donkey games’ (do I wanna play ‘chase’?), if I come out with their halters & try to catch them, if I stand still & call them – or speak to one & not the other – they’ll come right up to me. I can now pick/clean Kinsey’s feet out with her standing loose…Jenny-Mae’s only good for lifting the front ones, unless she’s tied. I thought to work on this, getting the idea from Carl & Jason about teaching them to stand for harnessing w/out being tied. I haven’t gotten their harnesses paid for & sent to me yet, but I’m thinking that if they’ll stand loose for hoof-cleaning, then harnessing will be a breeze. Jenny-Mae doesn’t like the wheelbarrow yet, but is starting to reconsider; might have something to do with it being used for bringing Her Majesty her hay. :p So, I’m just doing basic things around them, and I’m pretty sure they’re learning about me: my moods & actions thereof (if he’s mad about something else, how will he act towards me?) and what I expect from them as to what the rules & acceptable behavior is. Kinsey has learned that I WILL NOT be intimidated or pushed around; Jenny-Mae recently learned that I am more stubborn than she is >>> I most definitely WILL ‘walk her down’ over 1 1/2 hours over the entire 26 acres, if she doesn’t come to me when I call to her. Just standing still was no longer acceptable…she had to actually come 5 steps to me, but we did enjoy that apple, once she did. 😀

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