[Rick Alger]

Thanks Carl,

I agree the first step is to nail down the objective.

If a newsletter is needed at the outset, perhaps it could be formated in this forum, and each of us could be responsible to print out and mail copies to a few interested non-connected folks.

[Rick Alger]

Hi Simon,

By “new age logger” I mean someone who make his primary income in the woods from something other than timber extraction – property management, selling bark or mushrooms, creating woodscapes, training newbies, etc. I gather there is a growing number of these folks. I am not one of them.

[Rick Alger]

The first thing I’d like to see is an agreed upon general direction/mission of the group. (My vote is “to improve the lot of the practicing logger.”)

For representation, I would like it keyed in some way to forest types . Ie. Boreal Forest, Central Hardwoods, , Western softwood etc, and I would also suggest it be spread among traditional and “new Age” loggers.

As far as numbers go, the fewer the better, but there should probably be a Canadian or two.

Don’t start-up groups like this usually have a small core group that works up proposals etc for a larger group to endorse or reject? I would be okay with that kind of approach.

I will be back logging in the Grant this fall and winter and will be off-grid for weeks at a time, so I am also wondering about response-time issues.

[Rick Alger]

Hi Jim,

Is the trailer gas or electric?

[Rick Alger]

Message received.

[Rick Alger]

The property maintenance concept has not worked for me in my area in spite of considerable efforts on my part, so I’m out of step with many of you. But if there is room for an old school logger in the revived logger’s association, I will participate.

[Rick Alger]

To have a thriving association, we need thriving loggers. But right now most of us are in survival mode. In spite of some excellent ideas about value adding, the core of our business is the log check, and there is not enough in the log check department to provide us a living wage.

The logging economy has changed drastically since the heyday of the NHMLA, and I think a reborn association should change with it. I think it should be more like a political action committee with the purpose of getting public cost-share money for environmentally sensitive animal logging. There are programs already, such as the USDA’s WHIP program, that reward green forestry practices. We should put our energies into getting our share of that kind of money.

If my operation was subsidised $50.00 a thousand, it would allow me to think in terms of continuing the business instead of just using up my assets as I am doing now.

I’m all for networking, but let’s put our time and energy into dealing with the real problem.

Rick Alger

[Rick Alger]

I think the emphasis should be political. Lobby the government for subsidies for quality horse logging harvests.

[Rick Alger]

Don’t know about your area, but in NH, an LLC doesn’t exempt partners from the Worker’s Comp laws.

Also in this state many landowners and foresters require a certificate of insurance to be part of the contract. This usually means a General Liability policy, Worker’s Comp on any workers, and fairly high auto insurance coverage.

I work alone so I don’t pay Worker’s Comp, but I still need General Liability and auto coverage to get access to jobs.

[Rick Alger]

In the same issue there is an announcement of a new venture called “Small Farms Consevancy.” It sounds like a useful concept to me. I’d like to hear what others think.

[Rick Alger]

Hal,

I’m surprised you haven’t got an answer or two. I’ll give you one.

I’m a horselogger living in New Hampshire’s “industrial forest.” I value my labor at the rate I got from the state DOL for an average cable skidder guy. It aint much, but it gives me a realistic benchmark.

There are other occupations and other areas where I could make considerably more money, but I don’t want to compromise my way of life. Besides, my kids are grown and my mortgage is paid, so a lot of pressure is off my shoulders. And I love every day in the woods. This winter a USGS scientist who was doing some study near my job stopped by to watch me skid some wood. As he was leaving he said to me, “Man, you’ve got the best job in the world.”

For me, he was probably right.

But for a young person, there are economic concerns that would make it less rosy. You are wise to be looking hard at the economics of whatever you plan to do out in Oregon.

[Rick Alger]

Hey Joel,

Speaking for myself, not Jason or Soren, I take the wedge out of the log because I cut my stumps at just about ground level.

I don’t lose scale because I cut the wedge out of the first 10 % of the stump’s diameter. I don’t go in a third like we used to do – just cut off the butt flare and a little bit more. I don’t get barberchairs because I cut the wedge at around an 85 degree angle, and I leave a thin hinge.

[Rick Alger]

I’ve only seen pictures. They were posted by a guy from Norway a few years back on RH and the Maine Horselogging site. I think his name was Oysten Lien.

Anyway, here’s what I recall. The shafts are slightly wider than the runners. They are hooked loose to the sled with a chain which is connected at the center of the cross piece at the front of the sled to the center of the crosspiece at the back of the shafts.

The back end of the shafts has a “shoe” on the end of each shaft that rests on the ground when the sled is stopped or going downhill. The sled rides up on the shaft cross piece, the shoes dig in, and the sled stops.

It’s the same concept as hooking long and letting the sled ride up on the whiffletree, but it appears to be more likely to work every time.

In the European arrangement the horse pulls directly on the shafts which hook to something like a D-ring in the harness, but it looks like an American style combination of tugs and shafts would work.

Maybe we’ll hear from somebody who has tried it out.

[Rick Alger]

Has anyone tried the European style shafts that act as a brake?

[Rick Alger]

Things vary regionally, but in NH here is what I do:

1. I get spec. sheets from the local mills. These tell what the mills take and how much they pay.

2. I get hauling prices from at least two local truckers with self-loaders.

3. I get a general idea of stumpage value (value of the standing timber) from the town clerk in the town where the job is.

4. I walk the lot carefully figuring how many board feet or cords a day I will be able to extract on average.

5. I divide the amount income I need per day by #4 and have a good idea of what i have to get per board foot or cord.

6. With the above material I sit down with the landowner and try to arrive at a stumpage figure (what I pay him for the wood) that is fair to him and fair to me.

This is not the best way for a horse logger to get paid for reasons discussed by Carl and Jason, but sometimes it’s the only way to get started – or keep going.

Also, with all the economic turmoil, this is a very challenging time to begin.

Anyway, best of luck.

[Author]

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