[Rick Alger]

Thnning sugar orchard. Then back to spruce/fir sawlogs. Eleven below this morning with a nasty breeze. Won’t be doing much today.

[Rick Alger]

Many years ago my grandparents had a horse that wouldn’t stand for harnessing and was very hard to catch. As a kid, my father used to ride this horse bareback because it ran “like the cowboy horses”.

One time Dad got swept off the horse by a tree branch about a mile from home. He was knocked out and had a broken arm. The high strung horse came back and stood while Dad wrestled himself back on.

[Rick Alger]

Carl, some thought provoking stuff.

I read somewhere that roughly 25 percent of the jobs in America require a college degree, yet well over 50 percent of high school seniors enter the college-to-career pathway each year.

[Rick Alger]

Great pictures. Do you know if these men were POW’s?

[Rick Alger]

Scott, Jason, Taylor, Lancek, Jim and others,

There is a person on the DAP board with 17 years experience as an insurance agent, Logger’s Wife. I’d like to get her involved in this thread. What do you guys think?

[Rick Alger]

Thought I would summarize where we are on the topic of Workers Comp.

Most everyone posting on this thread has used the “independent contractor” status for people working at their site. Jim offered how they do it in Maine, and it seems to be the best model. Each individual gets a written waiver from the WC Board, and then they contract independently with the landowner.

The dicey part is covering interns, apprentices, and rookies. As Taylor said, when someone gets hurt the courts decide who is an employee and who is a contractor.

If the WC rates were reasonable, it would be simple enough to cover folks who weren’t at the contractor stage. Suggestions to bring the rates down include:

Lobbying efforts linked with large environmental groups

Joining forces with other niche business like blacksmiths etc.

Pooling across state lines to form a new category for animal powered
loggers.

All three of these ideas could work together. I’ve done some work on the pooling idea, and will be pursuing it further in April with an advocate in the NH Insurance Comission. We need a way to provide hard data to show that animal logging is safer than cable skidder logging. Scott is planning to help collect data. More input will be appreciated.

[Rick Alger]

Another option is to loop the reins on a hame and let the horse go on voice command. My mare has a good “whoa” and a good “walk”, so I do this often when things are tight.

[Rick Alger]

Tim and Carl,

Yes, a good idea. Marketing is a very different skill from logging. It is hard to do both well.

Any markets in MO for birch bark?

[Rick Alger]

I’ve used a set of sleds just once. It was a situation where the yarding distance was over a mile. Once the haul road was set up and the logs were piled at a brow, I could move around a thousand feet at a turn and easily land a truck load in a day. The difficilties were prepping the haul road, swamping space to stockpile the logs at the brow, and loading the logs safely. (you should have helpers)

I use a scoot for wood that is too small to justify a trip out with the arch such as pulp pieces I cut while making trails and fire wood I cut from tops. Anything that is easy to hand load and falls somewhere near the trails. Many times I’ve cut and piled firewood in the woods at odd times and then gone back later on frozen ground to scoot it out.

[Rick Alger]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The guy I talked with was all for multi-state data. He is aware that the number of animal loggers is small. He is also aware that many of us run under the radar. And he is willing to admit that the current rates are very high.

What we need is a separate classification category.

He says he is willing to work with us on this problem, but right now there is no data to use to develop a separate category for animal powered loggers.

If we ever got to the point where there was sufficient data, the separate category would not be created by the state of NH. It would be created by the company that administers WC in 35 states, NCCI.

If a separate category was established, the rate might vary state-to-state, but it would be lower than the conventional logger rate in the respective state.

It will take years. I’m willing to put some time into this if there is any interest. If there is no interest, please let me know.

[Rick Alger]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The guy I talked with was all for multi-state data. He is aware that the number of animal loggers is small. He is also aware that many of us run under the radar. And he is willing to admit that the current rates are very high.

What we need is a separate classification category.

He says he is willing to work with us on this problem, but right now there is no data to use to develop a separate category for animal powered loggers.

If we ever got to the point where there was sufficient data, the separate category would not be created by the state of NH. It would be created by the company that administers WC in 35 states, NCCI.

If a separate category was established, the rate might vary state-to-state, but it would be lower than the conventional logger rate in the respective state.

It will take years. I’m willing to put some time into this if there is any interest. If there is no interest, please let me know.

[Rick Alger]

I heard back from the Workers Comp guy. He said he discussed the issue of lower rates for animal powered loggers within his NH office and also by conference call with NCCI ( the company that administers Workers Comp in most states)

They were not opposed to establishing a separate rating class for animal powered loggers.

To do that they need data on actual cases of animal powered logger’s claims for lost wages and medical expenses.

Any suggestions on how to collect the data?

[Rick Alger]

I heard back from the Workers Comp guy. He said he discussed the issue of lower rates for animal powered loggers within his NH office and also by conference call with NCCI ( the company that administers Workers Comp in most states)

They were not opposed to establishing a separate rating class for animal powered loggers.

To do that they need data on actual cases of animal powered logger’s claims for lost wages and medical expenses.

Any suggestions on how to collect verifiable data?

[Rick Alger]

I heard back from the Workers Comp guy. He said he discussed the issue of lower rates for animal powered loggers within his NH office and also by conference call with NCCI ( the company that administers Workers Comp in most states)

They were not opposed to establishing a separate rating class for animal powered loggers.

To do that they need data on actual cases of animal powered logger’s claims for lost wages and medical expenses.

Any suggestions on how to collect verifiable data?

[Rick Alger]

Jason, I believe this is a closed discussion.

Scott, I agree that most WC laws are state governed and vary. It will be a challenge.

However at least 35 states use the classification system developed by a single company called NCCI. This company also calculates most states exposure rates. There might be some flexibility here.

Someone I spoke to from the NH Insurance Commission said he would look into the issue of pooling across state lines and get back to me.

I’ll be gone off-grid for a week to ten days starting tomorrow. I will report as soon as I get back.

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