[Rick Alger]

A while back popple groundwood was high, but the last popple I sold went in as mixed hardwood pulp. My portion ( cut and skid contract) was $20 a ton. That’s about $52 a cord. There is no local market for bolts or sawlogs. Working alone it takes me six and a half days to produce a tt load when the going is good, and a whole lot longer when it isn’t.

Seems like harvesting popple would work good with a two or three guys on the ground just dropping across the trail, and someone else on a forwarder as covered in simon’s post. It could be like the old stump-cutting routine. Ever try it?

[Rick Alger]

I’m cutting softwood logs from my own land. Couldn’t find a way to sell softwood pulp this fall, so I turned down a couple jobs. Going to have the pulp and dead wood here at home chipped just to get it out of the way.

What are you getting per ton for popple?

[Rick Alger]

My trails are narrow and not always level so this may not apply to you, but just in case – One thing I have had trouble with is the sleigh sliding off track on slippery snow and nicking trees. Another thing is branches weighed down by the snow brushing horses and people.

I try to walk or drive the wood section of the trail before night rides so I can remedy these problems.

[Rick Alger]

I agree with one of Carl’s earlier posts. The best idea is to plan your trails ahead so you can go with the natural lean.

But in a pinch here’s a few more wrinkles.

If it’s hung up but still on the stump, plan which side of the stump you will roll it to and put some sturdy hardwood rails next to the stump pointing in the direction you are going to pull. That will keep the butt out of the ground and make it easier to pull.

If the butt is driven into the ground, bore out a large channel in the butt parallel to the ground and aimed in the direction you are going to pull. Put a stout hardwood rail in the channel. Cut the sides of the channel so the butt slumps onto the rail and straddles it. May need an axe so the saw doesn’t get pinched. Use snatch blocks to increase your pulling power.

[Rick Alger]

Hey, Mitch,

The last drive here on the Androscoggin was about 1964. One of the reasons I heard that Brown Co stopped the drive was that they were using more hardwood. It didn’t float well. There was also talk about the other reasons you covered.

I worked a bit driving a dump truck on the new system of truck roads Brown Co. built in the late 60’s. Some of the guys driving truck were former river drivers. I was lucky to eat a quick lunch with a few of them. One of them said the worst thing about driving the river was working in wet boots from dawn to dark, but he also said driving the river was way better than driving a truck.

Some of these guys drank all day while driving their trucks ( nothing illegal about it on company land if the road boss didn’t catch you ) But it was also obvious they were bored to death because something important had gone out of their lives.

[Rick Alger]

Hey, Taylor,

I don’t have a digital camera, so you’ll have to trust me on this. I have a beautiful 12 foot stock trailer I bought used twelve years ago for $2,200. Since then I have sunk a couple thousand into tires, brakes, wiring, springs, paint and sheet metal and Bondo, along with reg. and ins. And I spent a lot of time tinkering.

If I was going to keep at this racket much longer, I wouldn’t invest in another trailer. I would find some local horsepuller who would transport the horses reasonably. Then I would keep them on site as I often did anyway.

[Rick Alger]

Hey Jim,

I checked out that payment schedule that you posted. I’ve never had a job where I was paid by the hour, but a lot of those categories are exactly what go into figuring a stumpage bid.

It might be useful to continue chewing this over in terms of North American forest types and logging practices.

Have a nice Thanksgiving.

[Rick Alger]

A friend of mine, now deceased, was a teamster for the Brown Company in the 40’s. From what I remember of his stories, he didn’t haul any wood until freeze up in December. Hauling was then done on company built haul roads that were packed and maintained. They always led to the river or a lake, (mainly downhill) and they were often over a mile long.

An average two-sled load was 3- 4 cords, and an average day of sledding was three turns or 10 – 12 cords. He had a helper. They worked ten hour days, six days a week. Hauling ended just before spring break up.

If I remembered these details correctly, they certainly support Carl’s point about the effectiveness of bob sledding.

The challenge for modern horse loggers considering this method of forwarding is the cost and the impact of road building and the fact that it is truly efficient for only a few months out of the year. Also if you are loading saw logs, bob sleds and scoots require a helper (unless you’re a bull like Carl.)

Anyway, just some thoughts on a windy day before Thanksgiving.

[Rick Alger]

Cut into the stump about an inch deep on each side of the hinge below the plane of your notch and back cut. The fibers are stringier there and tend to pull more. Also make sure your back cut makes a perfectly even hinge.

In the small wood I usually cut, my hinges run about half an inch to an inch depending on diameter.

[Rick Alger]

Hi VT Horselogger,

I think I know where you’re coming from. I’ve done my share of skidder logging along with a bunch of years horse logging.

Carl’s right about that thread. It covers a lot of ground.

One thing it doesn’t cover is the issue of how dependant your cash flow is on your logging business. Here’s my take on it.

If you have a variety of funding of streams that can support your horses and related investments when they aren’t working, then it’s to your advantage to sit back and wait for the short-term jobs that will generate $35 or more an hour.

If your income options are limited, it may be better to buy stumpage and work on long-term job commitments.

It’s very tight now no matter which way you go, but there is absolutely no way you will find steady $35 an hour work.

The stumpage route will be way less money per hour, but the yearly return will be much greater, and it will at least pay for your horses and related investments, and provide you with a “voluntary poverty” salary. And you can always leave the stumpage job temporarily to take some higher paying short-term work.

It’s a disheartening business – always has been – but if you’re in it for a place on the high road, you’ve got to believe it’s going to get better.

Best of luck

Rick

[Rick Alger]

County Mouse, in my experience hungry horses don’t drink till they have eaten their fill and thirsty horses don’t eat until they have drunk their fill (or close to it) Unless they are working hard, all you have to do is give them all the water they will drink after they have had their feed. Then you can wait for the next feeding before you worry about water again.

[Rick Alger]

Just remembered they also used them in an ice house to switch the cakes off the main slide into a bay.

[Rick Alger]

Around here they used to use them at the mill to pull 4-foot wood out of the river onto conveyors. Truckers unloading by hand would use them to pull the top sticks down to a lower level tier. Some stump cutters used them to drag sticks to the pile. I think they also used them on the 4-foot river drives.

[Rick Alger]

Anything new?

[Rick Alger]

My sincere sympathy.

There is a lot of that crap going around. You are not alone. A good friend of mine was fired last year a few months short of vested retirement after 19 years with State Street Bank. He was told his release was one of many “painful changes necessary to keep the institution alive.”

The most obvious change was a multi-million dollar bonus for the CEO.

Keep your head up. That other door will open soon.

[Author]

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