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At the risk of sounding stupid, is the main reason to use a forwarder to reduce the amount of time/distance spent on long turns?

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Amen Grey! I can find farriers willing to trim my drafts but not shoe ’em – guess that means I need to learn to do it myself.

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Hi Caitlyn,

We have some Suffolk sheep just because that was the “only” thing my kids could bring to the fair for 4H (ag youth program). These sheep get pretty big and pushy – could be harder to handle. Since they grow to a good size, many people use them for what’s called a terminal sire – use a suffolk ram to breed ewes whose lambs you plan to raise for meat and sell. Personally, I also like the Icelandic sheep – they have nice wool, aren’t too big and give enough milk that they can be used for home dairy. Sheep cheese is too good!
Have fun, see what is available in your area and not too pricey. You can always switch to another breed after you get your feet wet !

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Although not horse hooves, when I was at Washington St University my advisor had some mountain goats (wildlife). They were kept in some large outdoor pens (like 6 acres) but the sod didn’t keep their hooves in shape so we had to trim them every so often – in their rocky abrasive natural environment, there was no need for a farrier 🙂 This sort of reinforces what Bob is saying about natural hoof care.

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The reason I ask about the first year production is that, if I’m not mistaken, the breakdown of the sod uses or ties up N in the soil – remember the C:N ratio stuff needed to make compost – same idea. That could leave you short of N for your crops (unless you take that into account before you plant and provide enough for growth). Anyway – the proof is in your garden(s) – if it worked out then it worked!

How do you use the old fire truck for irrigation (I thought I was the only one who’d thought of that!)? There are some pretty decent old firetrucks to be had cheap. Nobody takes care of their vehicle like the FD!

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For those of you NW plowing enthusiasts – Here’s the schedule I got from the Whitman Co growers guide:
March 27-29 Wilson Creek Old Time Farming Days, Wilson Creek WA (contact Tom Hennigar 509 – 648-3462 or Stan Riebold 509-648-4272). http://www.plowingdays.org/
April 3-4 Eastern Washington Agricultural Museum Spring Farming Days, Pomeroy, WA (contact Jay 509-843-1149 or David at elephant@pomeroy-wa.com)
April 17-18 Old Time Farming Days Plowing and Seeding, Colfax WA (contact Tom Hennigar 509 – 648-3462 or Stan Riebold 509-648-4272).

Good fun to watch, meet and greet, discuss and participate in!! Oh – as in most of these events, there’s some good grub too!

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Back to John’s question – I think that if you have any grazers available, graze it pretty intensely – just really beat it down hard before you till. Then, as others have mentioned, keep after the harrowing, especially if you’ve got quack grass. Finally, pick a cover crop (if that’s your route) that has very rapid and vigorous establishment (some ryes and some winter peas fit this bill) – want to get ahead of the weeds. Red clover is a biennial and doesn’t really fill in here during the first season although it’s pretty good in year 2.

How many folks here get a cash or eating crop during the first season after breaking out of sod? Just wondering.

I know you definitely have more precip than we do in West US and that might help alleviate some of the establishment patterns I mentioned.

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Hey Marshall,

You know there’re no rocks in Michigan! Seriously, the “standing part” of that plow is pretty long – six feet or so – and is actually a “T” profile (stand on top of the T) so the bottom of the T acts as a kind of rudder. The Moldboard is maybe 4 ft long with a hold bar on top to help balance you and control (not steer) the plow by lifting or leaning on it. I wish they had a diagram of how to build one – I’d do it.

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Hi Donn,

Thanks for your thoughts. The reason I ask is that right now I only have 2 horses and would like to use them as much as possible. I’ve considered using a hay wagon with a popup loader on it to go back and pickup those bales left on the ground.

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Hi Andrea,

Welcome and I’m not too far from you here in N. ID. Might have to meet sometime – maybe at Pomeroy since I’m planning on bringing my team this year.

In a previous post you mentioned Tillers International – they might also be a source of info. If you’ve been there you know they have 2 or 3 barns worth of draft equipment of every type – when I went, there were at least 3 different styles of treadmill power units alone! Dick Roosenberg is a fount of knowledge as well.

Good luck and maybe see you soon!

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Hi Donn,

If someone was pulling a PTO cart and baler but dropping bales in the field (no wagon) can one get by with just 2 horses or is that still too much load for a team by itself?

[near horse]

Who’d you work for in Troy? I’ve lived in Deary (Troy’s nemesis) for the last 20+ yrs and know a few guys still farming around Troy. Now this really is a small world!

[near horse]

I agree – it’s unfortunate that BF felt he had to drop out. I must admit that I was a bit confused about privacy concerns until I read about a “debate” regarding our local food co-op. The governing board voted to use some tracking software to “manage their data for tax purposes”. One of the board members for whom I have great respect (he voted against using the software) wrote an editorial as to why this is an issue of concern. Just because the entity collecting the data has no “ulterior motives” does not mean that the data won’t be accessed and used by someone or agency that does.
One example cited in the editorial is posted at this site: http://www.privacyrights.org OR http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9812473-46.html

It involves data mining of food purchases at a co-op looking for those that bought “middle eastern” food – to identify potential terrorist suspects.

BF – I regret your leaving but do understand better now. I hope you can lurk and still enjoy this site as we have enjoyed your posts.

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Hi Erik,

Interesting thread. I think that the mud/footing might be your biggest challenge – for both you and your team. In my limited experience, my horses are ok with the water aspect (after a bit of repetition) but really “worry” when they start sinking in a foot or so.

When you work up the paddy, is the rice already “established” or is it like an initial tilling? Also, how long will the water have been “standing” in the paddy when you go to work it? Those things might effect how soft the ground is under foot/hoof. Sorry if these seem like dumb questions but I’m not very clear on rice growing.

Also, isn’t there a picture of Lynn Miller in his Draft Horse Handbook using his team to clear weeds from his pond? He might have some concrete experience to tap into.

Good luck and let us know how things work out!

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Tim – I looked at your “draft report” and it has some interesting information (certainly saved it in my files!). I do have sort of general question – when you look at the impact of ground surface on draft, how much can be attributed to actual “increased drag” of the log on the surface vs the decreased efficiency of the animals’ ability to pull over a softer surface? I’m thinking about deeper snows or even tilled ground. Loose ground can/does increase the amount of energy needed for your team to move forward, even without a load. We can help support a load on sled, go devil etc but I’ve never seen oxen or horse snowshoes 🙂

The reason I bring this up is one of my cohorts in grad school did some work with increased E expenditure by deer and elk with increasing snow depths and densities. It was pretty impressive as to how much more E it takes to move about in deep or loose material.

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