[near horse]

The slight acceleration and deceleration that causes the pulsing is accentuated under greater resistance.

Do you think the pulsing is actually accentuated at “the extremes” of resistance – both high and low? I’ve noticed the pulsing when using a light sled that tends to glide forward after the initial pull leaving the team with almost no load, then they “catch up” or take up the slack and it’s another spike (albeit not an overall big load).

It seems that we often mediate the pulsing action, particularly with a heavy load, by allowing or encouraging the horses to accelerate as they pull, somewhat reducing the deceleration over the pull. I’m not as familiar w/ oxen but it doesn’t seem like they are as likely/able/willing to accelerate like I just described. I could be completely wrong about this and in no way am trying to disparage the ability of oxen to pull a load. Just thinking about how we work with our animals.

Would it be possible to factor out all the extraneous effects on draft (harness type, draft angle etc) and look at how these 2 differnet animals move forward under a load? Perhaps using a tread mill and vary the resistance of the conveyor platform ? Could even have 2 smaller treadmills – one for the front legs and one for the rear to isolate the forces applied by each.

Nah! That’s not a good idea.

Putting springs into a hitch will not reduce the amount of power needed to move the weight, it will only serve to cushion the impact against the animals

Carl – exactly. There is no free lunch. It takes a certain amount of energy to move a given mass a given distance. Energy spent stretching a spring will eventually be transmitted to moving the load but at an amount equal to or less than that expended to stretch the spring in the first place. In the bicycle example, if both the professional rider and the young woman weighed the same (as did their bikes) it took the same amount of energy to get them to the top of the hill – she just did it faster. The physiological ability of the human body to recover from this exertion is another story.

[near horse]

Your time is one thing you truly own from the outset – no initial cost. And you get to decide how to use it. So kudos to those of you who can spend your time doing something that is your passion – that’s a good life to be living.

[near horse]

When you say “new style” btms are you talking about those Oliver Raydex bottoms? That’s what I’ve got on my JD – apparently the Amish prefer them over JD original and swap them off asap. They do bolt right up.

What model is that in the picture? The landside wheel seems way over to the left. Is that normal?

Now turn some soil

[near horse]

I think that Carl makes a good point about the steel vs pneumatic wheel issue – for example, isn’t the friction force that must be overcome to start a load, greater for a pneumatic tire than for a steel wheel – on a solid surface with essentially no deflection, like pavement? That’s why we choose them for use on highways because we can use that friction to stop us more effectively when we apply our brakes. That said, it then seems that the “downside” of steel stems from the effect it has on the soil/substrate that you’re trying to roll on – since it can’t “deflect” or compress in response to a load, the soil ends up compressing and results in higher draft numbers –

One additional advantage of pneumatic tires is the flexibility of adding or removing air to increase flotation or decrease friction depending on the substrate we’re moving on.

Sorry if I ended up repeating some earlier comments – I think that I did. But with regard to the buffering of the load with nylon tugs it seems to me that the E required to pull a 12″ share say 200′ through soil that has spots of higher and lower draft is independent of what type of tug you’re using – the stretch and return of the nylon tug all add up to the same amount of E as the standard tug (it has to doesn’t it?). If you graphed the draft over the whole 200′ pull wouldn’t you see fewer highs and lows with the nylon tugs but in the end, the same total E expended? I guess that’s why I see the benefits more as shock load absorbers but I’m no physicist.

[near horse]

Hey Big John,

Did you also use your one btm JD sulky plow? Any “tipovers”” I ask only because I had a couple my self last weekend. Pretty surprising how “tippy” those plows can be – doesn’t even need to be very steep ground. Also, if your team decides to step backward (like at a corner), over you go. That’s why lots of folks here have switched over to some homemade plow setups, no tongue and no rear wheel.

Also, Mitch, that turning business is where your horses really can show their “stuff”. I too like turning over long stretches of nice soil but the turns are where they need to pay attention and listen. It can be frustrating but I will say my team (or I) got better over the course of the last weekend – although there were occasional attempts to turn early etc. Rocks are a whole ‘nother issue 🙁 Any problems with badger/dug out gopher holes? Those are interesting too.

As a sidelight, one teamster hitched up 7 Belgians and of course people started giving him grief (that’s half the fun of these events, isn’t it?) about “getting the right number of animals”. They were hitched 3-2-2 so we called that a 7UP hitch. Yuk yuk yuk.

[near horse]

My understanding was that the springs reduced the “shock load” that the horses might experience when hitting the “immovable object” (like a rock, root etc). If you’ve ever hit something solid, even in a tractor, it can be a bone jarring experience – I can’t imagine how bad it could feel on a horse’s shoulders.

[near horse]

Hi All,

I got to see that unit down at the Pomeroy Plow Days as well as having the pleasure of meeting Andrea and her family. John, you are correct – that is an awesome restoration. The guys at the S.E. Washington Agriculture and Historical Museum have done some very nice work both here and in the other equipment in their museum.

The gear in the center of the power unit has to be at least 5′ in diameter! Wow.

BTW – in the museum I saw a picture of 6 abreast oxen driven with lines and breaking sod. That is a wide load.

[near horse]

I’m not very experienced with the walking plow but it seems that when starting out it might be a good idea to have 2 people involved – one driving the team and the other operating the plow. The few times I’ve used a walking plow, that’s how I was educated – you can focus on what you need to do with the plow ( or team) without having to also pay attention to the other component. Then you can work up to running the whole unit on your own.

Tim – don’t you need to use 2 people when plowing w/ oxen?

[near horse]

Thanks Donn. Horses did fine. Worked hard, took directions etc.

While I understand what you’re saying about being purpose driven, I still am not sure how to translate that into action. If the horse “runs up” on me, do I demand it cease and yield or try to continue over to water?

The reason I bring up this issue (and you’re right about it being analogous to children) is that it presented itself in the new environment of the plowing event. They don’t behave like that at home and that’s why I attributed it to the excitement.

[near horse]

Okay –

This presents the opportunity to open a whole ‘nother thread on DAP or a series in RH. Some of the comments on this thread speak to the need for some type of compendium or list of “rules of thumb” like Donn’s:

“Trace chains with this style of harness should be adjusted by checking the britchen. Move the team back a step and the britchen is tight, move up a step and you should slip you fingers under the britchen easily, an inch of space perhaps, two hands of space and you are asking for trouble.”

As a new teamster, it is incredibly daunting to just plain figure everything out yourself. Some of us don’t have access to “good mentors” and as I’ve also mentioned in the past, just because someone’s been driving teams for many years, doesn’t mean that they’re doing it well – or right – or safely. (The previous comment is not directed at anyone on this list but is rather the product of my personal experience. I don’t know much but I do recognize when something seems unsafe.)

I know many of you that are good teamsters would rather be working your horses than schooling a bunch of knothead greenhorns (like me) but I hope you can see that the future of using draft animals lies in passing on the craft and those “bits” of wisdom – like Donn’s “checking tension at the brichen ….” are simple, straightforward, invaluable and not compiled in any one place.

Sorry about the ramble but I would find a list or compilation of “rules of thumb” priceless. Thanks for your consideration.

[near horse]

Honestly, I appreciate the recognition that even the “best laid plans of mice and men” can go awry. It can be very discomforting when an article or program says ” do this and this and tah-dah! Your problem is solved.” Sometimes things don’t go according to plan.

An good example is all those building/woodworking “how-to” programs that tell you, “check for level and plumb” and theirs always is, so they proceed. But never what to do if it’s not “level and plumb”.

Anyway – my point is, while not wanting people/horses to fail, it is nice to know that things don’t work perfectly for others too.

[near horse]

I’d like to go back to one of Donn’s earlier comments regarding not allowing a horse/mule to turn away from him. What do you do to change this? Run them off? If they aren’t haltered or caught, it seems you don’t have many options.

As a new teamster, I think one of the great challenges is being mentally prepared to respond “appropriately” to various undesirable behaviors without sending out signals of awareness/concern to the animals. I imagine that much of it comes with repetition over time. I’m sure some of you may be tiring of the same old issues but it seems pretty evident that this relationship is the real foundation of sound horsemanship. All the other stuff will come along much easier with animals that respect you. So I will continue to pry/question and try to understand the best way to foster the team/teamster relationship. Thanks for your patience.

Also, I understand what you’re saying Larry – whatever you did, you want to be able to repeat it and reinforce it. Just be careful about wanting to repeat the past success adding a heightened level of anxiousness to your demeanor that can then change the outcome. In other words, don’t overthink it! (that said after I’m asking for more info – go figure)

[near horse]

Wow Carl – I had no idea that the spamming was that rampant. I’m sorry that you have to spend so much effort cleaning up this junk. I can’t say this strongly enough and think I speak for many when I say, “thank you Carl, I (we) appreciate all that you do for this community.”

[near horse]

The link isn’t working for me either but I think Andrea is referencing this part of Tiller’s site (redone) http://www.tillersinternational.org/farming/resources.html

Also, how difficult would it be for a team to pull a single disc over intact sod/vegetated ground to start breaking it down? Most pics you see are 3 or 4 abreast but are working in plowed ground. If you remember the old JD plowing diagrams – disc first, then plow, then disc again.

[near horse]

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t cordwood and cement the “infill” between structural posts – in other words, the cordwood masonry portion is “non structural”. That would be the same for straw bales etc.
For some nice pics of a small project try the Palouse Clearwater Environmental Institute’s (PCEI) site http://pceiwriterstudio.blogspot.com/. They show it sort of step by step.

[Author]

Posts