[near horse]

(without giving the numbers of wildlife NOT cleaned!),
How would you measure that?

I think it is more like – wildlife cleaned before spill = 0; After spill = X difference is impact of spill on wildlife but that’s only the the impact on stuff you can hold in your hand and clean. Some of the rest of the measurements are meant to make it more “tangible” to the average person so they convert stuff to dollars lost. People can understand dollars vs metric tons of zooplankton wiped out.

I think it is overly simplistic to say “oil is gross and that’s alot of oil.”

Who said this? Gross is the wrong word – toxic is the right one. Read the label about avoiding prolonged exposure to simple motor oil – not good for living organisms.

[near horse]

Al,

Now I’m beginning to think you and your buddies migh be right. While it is a framed footlift sulky plow similar to the JD I have, some things look a little different – though might just be earlier model. The only place I can think of to lookright off is in L. Miller’s Plow/Tillage book (I don’t have that one) – it seemed to have a lot of variety in plows.

Good luck again.

[near horse]

What or whose politcal agenda is being furthered by these headlines? They might be sensational but not political that I can tell.

hard to figure out how much this matters

how much which thing matters? The oil leak?

I guess if we want to do comparisons, then compare it to other deep ocean drilling that’s busted wide open – not to tanker spills, land-based or shallow ocean wells. Probably nothing to compare and therein lies part of the problem – it’s a new game. Also, as someone who can appreciate engineering you should recognize how pathetic the whole safety system was/is for this operation. Shouldn’t have happened.

[near horse]

I mean really let’s use our heads a bit here – go spray motor oil on your beehive or goats or horses (and I mean coat them good – eyes nostrils the whole gamut) and see how that works out. I’m not a big fan of the media either but listing the top 10 spills doesn’t change anything – it’s like saying we f—ed up hugely before so that makes it ok now. Remember “tradition – just because we’ve always done it this way, doesn’t mean it’s not stupid”.

Who’s reporting a less than 1% “failure rate” (whatever that means) and how in the world is that calculated? Is it the number of spills divided by the number of active wells or total wells drilled (including all those that never produced so could never spill …) In addition, we wouldn’t accept the govt reporting on itself and I have a hard time trusting an industry to the same.

Media …..rarely put things into proper perspective

How can you know this to be true in this case?

I grew up with oil nearby – refinery next my grade school, pump jacks over the outfield fences at the local ball fields and rigs off the beaches. There were plenty of times where accidents happened that barely got an article in the newspaper – let alone wikipedia. School closed on 2 occasions in 8 years due to refinerey issues … Union oil ground is now a superfund site …… off shore spills leaving tar balls etc washing up for 15 yrs ….

If the spill is not THE WORST on record, then it’s not THAT bad? Not true.

Whether the media has played this thing to death or not is irrelevant. A leak pouring a quarter million gallons per day is a disaster like it or not.

[near horse]

Sorry but when somebody’s been signing your paycheck for 30+ yrs, it can certainly cloud your vision and Oldkat, your comments sound like you’re not seeing the whole picture. Just because

[more NATURAL seepage of crude (and natural gas) into the Gulf every year than what has flowed from the fallen BP platform/QUOTE] doesn’t mean that spilling that much oil in a month IN ADDITION to what is already seeping in to the gulf isn’t catastrophic and won’t have severe consequences on the environment. Sure, it won’t impact most of us and after the visible oil slick is gone we’ll call it “all better” but that’s not true. For example, the fisheries in the area of Alaska most impacted by the Exxon Valdez spill have never fully recovered – For that matter, we can say that nature “took care of” the nuclear wasteland of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, whatever that means.

This is the same oil industry that trashes the Niger delta and portions of South America with sloppy work and spills. Why?

Plus, guess who’s going to foot the bill for this one – yep, the consumer. Obama can “require” BP to pay up but those costs will be recouped at the pump – just wait.

In one respect, it is our “fault” for being oil dependent but people long before us made the decisions that developed a nation based on cheap oil (highway systems for one). It will take some time to figure out how to undo this reliance and you can believe that any company making billion dollar quarterly profits isn’t going to go away easily.

Sorry OldKat but I have nothing but disdain for the oil industry. They were drilling at 5000+ ft deep and nobody had a safety plan better than that Jr High science project they tried with the dome? Come on. They have a fortune in revenue; spend a bit more on safety. As a taxpayer, I also want to know how MY/OUR resource (it is the nation’s not BP’s) can generate billions in profits for them while I/WE are paying outrageous prices to use our own resource? Sure, they pay for the lease but whoever negotiated that thing is an idiot. The oil industry started out as fat cats in the Getty days and not much has changed since. They were part of the effort, along with the auto and rubber industries, that undermined and destroyed development of mass transit in the early years of the growth of Los Angeles. It worked out well for them but not so good for those folks in the smog-laden gridlock that the LA area is. I have seen little change.

[near horse]

Hi Al,

I know that everything that’s yellow and green isn’t necessarily a JD but that looks alot like my JD sulky (picture posted somewhere on DAP). The main difference that I can see is the front furrow wheel’s depth adjustment – besides the handle being modified, the shaft looks pretty long (tall). Also, and this could be a big difference, I can’t really tell what the beam looks like – does it have a “hump” in it? The JD I have is straight. Not sure I would put much stock in the way parts are stamped – seems there were a lot of part numbers that didn’t use the manufacturer’s initials – also, things like shares often end up being swapped onto different equipment. Good luck.

[near horse]

To that end, I think that it will be a tough sell ever getting the average consumer to “value” agricultural products produced by the HD community if the products produced are commodity products and not otherwise differentiated from those produced by the conventional farming community.

I think that selling the consumer on “how” something is produced is exactly the avenue HD production should tout – hell, the organic folks as well. The health benefits, micronutrients and antioxidant stuff is easily argued both ways but supporting a “style” or “way” of production is harder to refute.

[near horse]

This runaway also demonstrates the value (necessity) of having good solid equipment. The weak “links” in your setup show up in situations like this. Imagine how bad this could’ve gotten if part of the harness gave way – or some of the wagon gear. Farmer Brown did a nice job to keep things from getting worse.

Just as we identify escape routes when we’re felling timber, we probably should look at potential “escape routes” in these situations – just in case.

I have to agree that timed events can be hazardous – I understand that there was a wreck up at Sandpoint ID this last Sept in an obstacle event. The teamster eventually fell forward onto the doubletree and got run over by the wagon. He went to the hospital but ended up being alright – from what I understand. Maybe the point values should emphasize the precision over the speed.

[near horse]

I agree that “mixing” is not cheating and, in fact, is a necessity if using draft animals is to have a chance. Plus, where do we decide what constitutes a “machine” – most would agree that something that requires petrol or other fuel would qualify but even GD equipment is “machinery”.

Isn’t this an issue that the Amish have struggled with and continue to? Maintaining a way of life requires adaptation and compromise – kind of give a little or lose it all.

[near horse]

Life is kind of humbling isn’t it? Especially when things go really well the first time around – it almost sets us up for a second round disappointment.

That said, success is built upon a series of failures. Good effort Jen and now move on to something you and Reno can have a more positive experience with – like cultivating. Plus, your “troubles” ended up with you working w/ Mark – that’s a positive thing “teamsters helping teamsters”.

[near horse]

Hi Jean,

Here’s a copy of “how to test your grounding system” from the Powerflex website. They have some good ideas in their tutorial section. It’s hard for me to imagine you “easterners” would have trouble grounding at all, let alone this time of year. Wyoming (or Idaho) in summer – sure thing!

Good luck Jean.

[near horse]

One more thing to add from my very limited experience, for me the first 15 minutes or so of plowing is a little “irregular” until we (horses and I) all get on the same page. Then it gets a lot better (you know – sweat under the collar).

the same time insisting he walk in a 10 inch furrow, his feet barely fit into

Having a nice furrow makes a lot of difference to the furrow horse.

Kind of gives one some real appreciation for those original sod busters – clearing land etc.

Jen, we know you’re going to turn that soil over and end up with some nice tomatoes or corn there.

[near horse]

Hi Jen,

Hang in there, Remember, there are a lot of things worse than a bad day working with draft animals – in fact, when the dust settles, just working them makes life not so bad.

I do feel your frustration and have felt it plenty myself. In my case, I think it does come from the expectations as Carl says.

Is it possible to have someone drive Reno while you run the plow? Or vice versa? You’re trying to do 2 challenging things at once – hard to pay attention to both and evaluate what’s going on.

[near horse]

Even the 2 spring leaf is stiff? I think of those “springs” everyone puts on wagon seats (old school) – those things seem pretty soft to me – or maybe I’m just a big old lard bucket!

[near horse]

Hey Mike,

Where are you bustin’ out old CRP? I’m in the same boat with old CRP although I’m leaning toward working smaller areas – like a couple of acres each year. I imagine that disking at least once before tilling would help alot. Big root masses on our old bunchgrasses.

Good luck.

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