[near horse]

Hi Tim,

For some really helpful discussion of line and hitching adjustments and general harness info Steve Bowers’ book Farming with Horses is pretty good. Doesn’t do comparison of different styles of harness but definitely good info on how to make it work for you.

Also, isn’t there a video by Brandt Ainsworth about harness? I think it might be available from Rural Heritage – I’ve only seen bits of it on RFD but it seemed alright.

[near horse]

When you say “not sure whether it’s adapted to the west”, do you mean black locust period or a certain cultivar (like what I was calling shipsmast)? Black locust (Robinia pseudoacacia – I think I got this right) does very well if you can keep gophers etc from scarfing up the roots and killing the young seedlings.

They also do sucker pretty well. Any info on how the growth rate affects the wood?

[near horse]

Mitch,

What did you get for a combine? (Model not price). I think the ticket would be one of the pull behind units from the 40’s/50’s. Like an AC 60, 65, 72 or JD model 30 or 12. They only have 5 to 6 ft headers, usually are rusted in most of the flat sheet metal parts (rat/mouse urine etc ..)

Power options are PTO (so need a power cart like Donn’s) or some have a motor on them already (seem to be rarer cause folks like to take motors off for other uses).

I think your combine experience with binder straw/grain would happen with most combines since they really weren’t meant to handle that much straw. Just cut right below the grain heads w/ a little extra stem.

They’re harvesting out here right now and holy moly! I drove over to get some calves yesterday and there was a field of 20 – 30 acres of standing grain when I went past in the AM (and no combines in sight). Two hours later, I came by and that field was completely done and way off on the horizon were 3 combines ( probably $200,000 a piece) each w/ about a 28 ft header. Wow. Still need 100,000 bushels of $6 wheat to pay for those machines.

The small grains movement is catching on although it’s still pretty limited. I’ve mentioned it on DAP before but I’ll mention it again – google a radio program called “Deconstructing Dinner” and look for a series on small grain production for a local CSA. Pretty empowering.

[near horse]

@dlskidmore 20320 wrote:

No reason why you can’t do that today. Many people are looking for “green” alternatives. Start with a trendy natural foods store, (preferably one that lists it’s products online so folks can shop from home) and put up ads that you’ll deliver groceries from that store within a certain radius.

Selling Points:

• Lower Greenhouse Gasses
• Convenience of cutting out an errand a week.
• Benefits of the foods available at that store
• Novelty

As you develop a delivery route, note other businesses along it, and add them to your advertised services. If you build up enough clientele to do daily deliveries, you can add in fresh produce and dairy products from a local farmer. Most folks have yet to discover how much better really fresh produce is, but you can educate the consumer and get a premium over the Mexican out of season veggies.

You’ll unfortunately likely have to ship your animals and cart into a more densely populated area, but even that gas spent for one round trip a day is less than the multiple errand trips all your customers would be running without your service.

Or for a really crazy idea, how about the oxen ice cream truck! You’ll already be going the right speed for those crazy kids to be able to run and catch you after begging money off of Mom…

Sorry – I should have put this in my previous post but …..

Some commments here:

A) some folks think that bovines are actually major contributors to greenhouse gases in the form of methane (I think that’s a red herring myself).

B) a good example of draft animal useage is our friend Erik “good companion” Andrus using wagon & horse to haul baked goods. I thought about trying to provide something like that with dairy products – a small dairy in our area went back to trying home delivery (not w/ animal power though) ….

C) somewhere I read about folks that contracted with their town to do garbage pickup using their team and wagon. Hmmm. Lots of possibilities.

[near horse]

@dlskidmore 20007 wrote:

Thanks for the input. I’m likely to end up going that route, at least in the beginning. I’ll do some experiments with stockpiled forage, but I’m not counting on them.

@Carl Russell 20003 wrote:

I’m just working my way through this thread, and realize you have moved beyond this, but just want ed to say that as we are building a whole farm system here based in large part on grass-fed livestock, we still buy in a lot of hay for feed. We feed hay at least 5 months, but see it as importing nutrients, as we keep our out 365, except for freezing rain events. Hay chaff, seed, and manure from rotating the feeding areas around our open areas is part of our soil building activities.

Carl

Almost all the grazing “experts” regardless of location swear that buying in hay when needed is the only way to go. As Carl says, it’s essentially adding nutrients vs removing them from your land.

[near horse]

If I remember correctly, a fungal infestation can predispose a tree to subsequent insect attack. Makes them “more vulnerable”. Is that true?

Also, in fungal attacks, the problem is more systemic than what we see in the form of defoliated limbs etc. Removal of those parts may slow the demise of the tree but it is likely over for that tree.

On a side note – this is the 100 yr anniversary of the great 1910 fire in our region. There are alot of amazing stories regarding this fire, including miners/loggers trying to evacuate on a train that raced into a mile long tunnel and rode out the fire. When they emerged, all RR tressels/bridges were completely gone ….

[near horse]

Hey Mitch,

I’ve never heard of “glenn” variety. Sometimes it’s hard to evaluate a variety over one or two seasons – so much can vary to impact to performance (too cool for too long, too hot too soon, moisture at the wrong time …). With regard to plant height, some of the old varieties were more variable in average plant heights – something the plant breeders tried to change. In this area (the Palouse of E. WA) they developed the “dwarf” variety of wheat back in the 50’s so mature plants are only about 2-2.5 ft tall – no more “amber waves of grain”.

Both you and Donn make sure to let us know how your yields went. Very cool stuff!

Donn, do you have a way of cleaning your seed? I have a plan for a homemade seed cleaner I snatched off the net if you’re interested. Uses a shopvac I think – have to double check.

Also, don’t forget the value of that straw you have left in the field. It’s worth cutting and baling some of that – for personal use as well as resale. We have folks out here clamoring for straw come fall.

[near horse]

Hey Donn,

My eye is getting sore from having your finger sticking in it so often!! (I’m trying to say that I’m jealous :)) Where did you find Red Fife? I used to have a website that carried it and some other old varieties until computer crash – now, no more.

With Monsanto’s army marching agriculture over the cliff, saving some of these old varieties (like Red Fife) is one way we can respond. Are you planning on saving/replanting any of this year’s harvest? I think I’m hypersensitive right now, after seeing 2 films about the Monsanto GMO canola ruling and Percy Schmeiser. Grrrrr!

How big is an Oliver 18 combine (6 ft header)?

[near horse]

Thanks Andy.

It’s not surprising that fast food restaraunts would support S 510 since they are exempted from scrutiny (likely as a result of their lobbying efforts). That’s really disturbing as the proper cooking of food is the last line of defense in combatting food-borne illness. Even E. coli O157-H7 can’t survive cooking.

[near horse]

@Countymouse 20221 wrote:

Wow! Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I think you (Geoff) and I are agreeing on something political!!! 🙂

Hey Andy – you’re right. But that’s how I view an informed democratic society functioning. Not “party line” stuff but opinion/viewpoints based on what I (or you) see in a proposed bill or policy – no pundit/talking head telling me how it’s going to do this or that …. And that’s how we can both agree on this point but disagree (I guess) on others.

My take on the bill (and I read the version on “opencongress”) is there are too many vague points for me to be comfortable that it’s not targetted at small farms or won’t hurt them in the process. Although the bill has been on the calendar since Dec ’09, my understanding is that it’s supposed to come up for a vote before the end of the year.

When you see this legislation proposed, while USDA is out trouncing on the small raw milk producers and “animal shares” system, there is good reason to be concerned. IMHO – large corporate agribusiness has the regulatory folks chasing the small relatively inconsequential farmers (to the overall ag economy) to keep scrutiny from their industry.

[near horse]

Good tips from blue80. I do also have a problem trying to figure out where to put the stick/whip on the mower – accessible but won’t fall off into the grass when things are going well.

The stick is also good for when/if your horse/team starts to step back on their own – poke ’em in the butt. This might get a lot of grief but I wrap my lines around one of the levers for tilting the cutter bar if I have to get off for some reason. They are accessible, not loose and free up my hands to do whatever.

[near horse]

I agree that black locust can be a great tree to have in your stand. If I recall, they are also N-fixers, drought tolerant ….. and pretty easy to propagate. I would like to replant some of our old CRP ground to black locust – the problem is every critter loves to eat ’em.

These trees must have been considered of some value 100 yrs back because in this area (N. ID/E. WA) they were planted in groves and patches all over. Back in the “rain folllows the plow” era.

Does anyone know what their growth rate is like? So often, those fast growing trees end up being weak (not tight grained) and only good for pulp. Locust always seemed really tight so I assumed it was a slow grower.

Maybe it was on here that I read about something called “shipsmast locust” – if I remember right it was just a cultivar of black locust selected for straight trunk and limited branching. It was considered a premium product.

So, where to get some seedlings?

[near horse]

When my wife and I moved here 20+ yrs ago, our kids were 3 (boy) and 4 (girl) yrs old. As I mentioned earlier, while not a corn crib, like Carl’s, we lived in a 16×40 old house that was rundown and used as a hunting cabin for the previous 20 yrs. My kids had to share an 8 x 7 ft room (bunkbeds) for about 7 yrs – and that was about as long as they could handle it. In fact, they moved into their own rooms in the unfinished “new house” before we (wife and I) did. No heat etc out there but it was their space.

Living in the smaller space had its challenges – primarily related to trying to keep “stuff” safe and dry.

IMHO – kids can adapt to situations pretty well (better than us old farts). The downside – the “pressure” (even self-imposed) to get the new house built w/ limited time and resources. It took A LOT longer than I had anticipated. Good luck.

As far as school goes, it’s a crap shoot. There are good (and bad) teachers in public & private schools – the good ones know and love what they’re teaching, the others let the book publishers decide what/how to teach. Therein lies one of the problems w/ homeschooling – you can get the curriculum from a publishing company but IMHO no one person is passionate and knowledgable about all areas of education. And it certainly helps to be exposed to ideas/concepts that challenge one’s principles ( they can reinforce or change those beliefs).

[near horse]

Don’t you guys have access to Se- salt blocks? Just salt blocks w/ added Se.

[near horse]

I looked at the mules up for sale – they don’t look bad in the pics but are 20+yrs old and the text states they can’t keep up with the rest of the string. They are listed pretty low – like less than $100/hd. Only around 3 or 4 that I saw listed.

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