[near horse]

For the easy “back up obstacle” – you could do the rural mailbox. Just an old mailbox on a post in a bucket. Have to stop and take out the mail hold it up and then put it back in the box. See you all soon – i hope.

Also, with a couple of sheets of plywood laid on the ground with some 1 ft high white lathe garden fence (or something else to set an edge) – you just made a bridge!

OOOPS! Is this a ground driving obstacle course? Feel free to disregard my idea!

Also

[near horse]

I dropped a nice buckskin tamarack one time and found it had a bees nest in the base. The tree was near my wood truck and was “good wood” so I HAD to try and buck it up and load it while bees were flying about. When I finally had enough and went to get in the cab, I found I’d left the windows down and the cab was full of bees!! So, I decided that I should spray them with my powder fire extinguisher!! It slowed them down by coating them but I couldn’t see out the windshield so had to drive looking out the window with “white bees” crawling all about the cab.

[near horse]

@Tim Harrigan 21045 wrote:

Yes, probably like water where E. coli is mostly an indicator organism, in most cases not likely to cause a problem but but the presence of it is a red flag that other more pathogenic bugs could also be there. But back to the O157:H7, if it was present even at 1 cfu/ml and the infective dose is 100 cfu, 1 pint would give you a shot of 475 cfu. That could be a bad day.

The issue with o157 h7 is since E. coli’s are gram negative bacteria, they can release toxins upon their death and o157 release what is (was) known as shiga-like toxin that can really damage kidneys etc. As far as dose, I don’t know what the minimum requirement is – might not need to be very high. We do some work with Cryptosporidium (a waterborne microscopic protozoan found in cattle) and one can get infected with a few as 10 to 50 organisms. Cattle can be shedding something on the order of 100,000 per mL of stool so yikes.

Isn’t mastitis determined by total SCC – not really a measure of bacterial numbers (at least not directly) but more a measure of an immune response to an infection – just like elevated body temp.

[near horse]

Interestingly, up until E. coli O157 H7 hit the scene (early 90’s ?), screening for fecal coliforms was more to indicate that there was some fecal contamination that might carry/transmit certain bacterial diseases that are transmitted via fecal/oral routes – the main one being cholera. With the emergence of O157 H7 – that now changes the picture somewhat.

Nobody wants poop on/in their food but bacteria are everywhere – that’s why there are such things as allowable numbers of various bacteria in food. In fact, it seems to me to be pretty unnatural for people to be consuming sterilized foodstuff. That’s not how living consumer organisms evolved.

Also, with the 100 -1000 organisms/mL in milk in the udder, is that from the first stuff usually stripped off, the rest is “let down” from further up in the mammary tissues of the “udder” and would not be very likely to carry much bacteria, if any, unless there was mastitis. Then you would see high SCC (somatic cell counts) as a result of the inflammatory response to the infection.

Bottom line – milk is good food (excellent amino acid profile), for a lot of creatures, including some microbes.

[near horse]

First, I have to say that, regardless of what/how my comments below are perceived, I support a person’s right to consume raw milk. IMHO – it is the milk industry that wants to make sure raw milk is not available. They are concerned about: 1)bad press if someone gets ill from raw milk – it’s still milk and it’s guilt by association 2)small as the raw milk market is when compared to industrial milk, they still don’t want competition for fear that they might have to change their model (even to just add raw to their line).

So, with regard to raw vs pasteurized milk – I do think it tastes very different and flash pasteurizing (hi temp short time) likely does destroy some vitamins and alters some fatty acids in the milk, changing flavor and probably nutrient profiles. Some have tried to go to a low and slow pasteurizing (I’d have to look up the time/temps) in an attempt to meet USDA req as well as maintain the integrity of the milk.. BTW – they are also bottling and marketing their product to retailers. The money in milk, although fluid sales accounts for a majority of sales, is still in the fat. So, for ease of uniformity of product, all the fat is removed and then added back to the skim milk in whatever percent the are producing.

As OldKat says, the main reason for requiring pasteurization of milk WAS tuberculosis, although I’m a bit skeptical about how dangerous milk was in the whole TB thing. It was more likely close living conditions transmitting the bacteria via respiratory routes combined with no antibiotic treatments available at the time. Now, we have come to use pasteurization to 1) increase the “shelf life” of milk. (As an aside, there was/is research into feeding high levels of Vit E and C to reduce oxidation in both milk and meat to increase shelf life as well). There has also been a movement (I hope unsuccessfully) to use radiation to sterilize milk. Irradiated milk can sit unrefrigerated on the shelf for 3 months or more – someone can make money with those savings. Also, IMHO pasteurization also “allows” and perhaps even encourages sloppy milking practices – which allows increased speed and production. Then just take care of the contamination with pasteurizing/irradiation.

As we are all probably aware, there are other pathogenic bacteria that can grow in milk (as well as on other foods) and we need to be aware of that and handle our food accordingly.

I do believe that some people are “intolerant” of lactose or milk proteins, for whatever reason. There are arguments that adult animals didn’t evolve drinking milk, as it was primarily a food for infants that needed the high quality for growth, and so may lose the ability to digest milk. I never thought about whether the intolerance was due to homogenization or pasteurization. Hmmm.

[near horse]

@mitchmaine 20924 wrote:

the horses are really what it “is” for me, too. i get caught up in getting the plowing done so we can spread manure to harrow it in and drill in a crop before the middle of september or else what? the earth don’t end and we haven’t lost the place yet. once in a spell i can get lost in a job and forget the goal for a second and just enjoy the way the horses are going and try to remember what got me here in the first place.
my neighbor asks “so you mow the hay to feed the horses to collect the manure to spread on the field so the grass will grow so you can mow it to feed the horses? when are you done?” he gets it too but can’t let a good jab go once in a while.

One year I was stressing about getting fertilizer on in the spring and an oldtimer here said – “Been around a long time and I ain’t never seen the farming not get done.” Doh!:eek: Put me in perspective.

Are we about the process or the product?

[near horse]

@dlskidmore 20906 wrote:

Although I agree that it is better to work with your hands, not all unearned income is bad. Many of us have had to rely on lenders to purchase land or equipment, and stock trading is basically high-risk lending to businesses. I have no problem with the person who takes the money he earned with his hands and invests it in another person’s work, or who gives it to someone who has not earned it. Now excessive taking of that credit line or charity can do you harm, but it does have it’s place.

I’m not saying that work is limited to using your hands. Plenty of folks actually earn a living doing other things. Folks sitting on the beach in the Bahamas while stock dividends roll in aren’t earning a living IMHO.

Someone asked what has changed in society – this is part of it. There’s really plenty of pie to go around but some greedy SOBs want more than their fair share. When others see that, they also want more – and away we go. To hell with my neighbor , his loss is my gain …. Sad.

[near horse]

@J-L 20894 wrote:

I’m thinking it would be hard to find 20 people who want to work hard for the small return on 100 acres of farmland. This day and age most make a fairly high wage withouth getting any blisters on their hands or feet.

Then they go and get blisters “power walking” and playing golf.

[near horse]

@jac 20882 wrote:

The combine was set for imperial measures. I realise some of these figures may seem high but bear in mind that the eastern side and parts of Scotland can do can do nearer 4tons.. But their imput costs are horrendous. The 375 hp tractor on the seeder must be close on £100,000 the combine is £200,000 and if the single farm payment is taken out then these guys would struggle to break even !!! I agree totally on the fact its wrong that country people are being displaced from the country side and being replaced by folk who complain when a silage squad works late to beat the weather or the smell when the calf boxes are emptied but what is it going to take to make it right ?? I fear that if agriculture falls into enough of a decline to scare away the big boys then there might not be enough people left with the skills to take on the land.. the average age of farmers in the UK is already 58 i think.. that doesnt bode well for the future…
John

Hard to imagine US big ag will ever go under – w/ subsidies and all. PLUS the big farms are like the drug addicts w/ Conagra/Monsanto etc as the dealers. Dealers need addicts!

[near horse]

I heard a radio story recently that said a side business of the former Blackwater group was providing “counterintelligence” and protection for Disney AND Monsanto – with Monsanto, it was said that they were trying to infiltrate groups opposed to release of GMO crops etc

Sounds paranoid but that’s how $$$$ works. I’ll see if I can hunt down the source and more info.

Monsanto is the devil!

[near horse]

@mitchmaine 20863 wrote:

so what you are saying john is the only economic advantage to your model, or profit for investors, is by putting people out of work.

take the same 2000 acres and turn it over to 20 farmers. the fertility may actually improve and the same money would sustain twenty families and their help.

mitch

Hi Mitch –

You’ve exposed the soft underbelly of our economy. It’s called “Unearned Income”. Think about what we’re saying with that term- “you did not earn this money, someone else did the work but we’re giving it to you – or most of it.” And BTW – “we’re also putting your neighbors out of work, so you might want to start complaining about being taxed to help out those you’ve put out of work.” Regardless of how we feel about taxes and the govt etc – putting people out of work is wrong period. And, as for the guys manufacturing the BIG $$$ equipment – they could just as easily be making stuff for small farms …

@jac 20862 wrote:

As for yields, I was surprised at just how average they were. Wheat ran at roughly between 3.2 and 3.8 tons/acre.. That was on the combine moniter. I can remember talking with Bivol on this forum and he told me of a small farmer in his part of the world that was getting 6 tons/acre!!… At the above yields and with milling wheat at £170/
John

Holy cow – 3T/ac is 100 bushels (@60#) – that’s a great yield here (dryland farming w/ no irrigation). Especially with $6/bu wheat this yr.

[near horse]

Hi John,

I compare the practices you describe (and those seen here in my area of wheat farming) as similar to “hydroponics” if you remember that term. Growing plants in a sterile medium and add specified liquid nutrients as needed. No organic matter necessary – or any other soil/life …. In the conventional farming sense, the depleted soil is the planting medium – kind of seems stupid that we want to “conserve” it from eroding when it’s been wrecked. One can hardly call it soil.

BTW- What kind of yields (per acre or hectare) were you getting – say with wheat?

[near horse]

Hey Mitch –

I agree that a DAP identifier or location would be nice – maybe a big DAP sticker to put on our backs!

With regard to the disk, don’t be concerned about my travel route. The disk isn’t too far from where I need to go in Indiana to pick up the trailer in the first place. The oher variables, I can’t really speak to but I will make it to NEAPFD with or without the disk in tow. In fact, I figured that’s how y’all could ID me – the guy dragging a disk around the fairgrounds (right!).

Anyway, it’s your call but I’d be glad to help out by picking it up.

[near horse]

Should I let it grow another 2 weeks & hope for a good haying window around October 1, or take what I can get now?

If it looks dry for the next few days and there’s something there worth cutting, I’d have at it now. Never know what’s around the corner!

Are you getting regrowth on all of the species or is it more orchardgrass?

I thought timothy didn’t produce a second cutting very well and didn’t like being over stressed (has a rep for not being very persistent) and I think it stores its E reserves in a corm near the base of the plant (not below ground so it doesn’t handle late low cutting).

Remember – your mileage may vary!

Bedstraw !!?:eek: I hate that stuff and would cut it just to hear it scream:mad:

Oh yah, what do you mean hard frost in October? I thought I saw a picture of Carl at NEAPFD wearing flip-flops and Bermuda shorts. Now I have to change my wardrobe plans!

[near horse]

@blue80 20838 wrote:

:DI have a 7ft 14 disc adjustable. When set aggressively it is too much for a pair, my pair anyways, on heavy ground.

So I bought another horse😀

That’s what I’m afraid of!!

Seriously, I’m not thrilled by the idea of overloading my horses and will likely pass on this disk (the owner called me tonight to see if I was still interested and I stalled until i could get more feedback from DAP). If anyone on here and attending NEAPFD or near my travel route is interested, the disk is in Illinois and I would be willing to haul it up in “MY NEW STOCK TRAILER” for NC. It’s not cheap though – he’s asking $450. Any takers – please let me know ASAP and I’ll tell him I want it.

WOW.

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