[near horse]

With regard to the “windmill” versions (Dutch and in the old west), I think you’re looking for a different power usage than electricity generation, although they can do that too. Those things are good for pumping water and grinding feed etc – is that right?

Erik – what’s your storage going to be and how far from the rotor? Are you planning on running DC appliances or how will you use the electricity – inverter? Some of that can get spendy – just depends on how close to “on the grid convenience” you choose.

IMHO – the whole electric car movement should benefit the solar/wind power users in the development of better, smaller, cheaper batteries.

Carl – I never saw how you generate power at your place. What’s your setup?

[near horse]

Andy –

I don’t know why you continued to discuss the GMO issue and then decided that my comments weren’t worth addressing but that’s your choice.
So, to respond to your comments instead.

The issue with Mexico and US corn was not “straight dollar for pound” at all. Our gov negotiated (required) Mexico to allow US corn into their market as part of NAFTA – and I think we all know that US corn producers are a huge lobby and well subsidized. That’s how come a small farmer in Mexico growing corn can’t compete with a guy in Iowa growing 5,000 acres using hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment and 2000 miles of transportation added to it.

In other words, there is now more food, but there are more mouths to eat it too. Though tragic, it is somewhat predictable that as long as there is food, people who don’t know any better will reproduce until it’s gone and some starve. But what to do about it?[I]

Blame the people while good farm ground is kept in the hands of a few wealthy landowners for raisng cattle to provide burger for McDonald’s restaraunts? That’s what’s happening in plenty of developing nations (if you can call them that anymore) – check out lots of Latin America.

It will probably be hard to convince landowners in developing countries (especially those with a choice) to leave behind cash crops and grow subsistance crops that will yield less than if they simply traded thier cash crop for cheap western grain.

Look at the infrastructures available in those countries. US and other nations “convince” the leaderships to “invest” in providing certain crops to the developed world. Check out a film called Darwin’s Nighmare. Developing countries are still treated like the colonies they once were, just without the label.

[I]Complicating the issue is that some countries don’t have enough high quality land to feed thier populationn reguardless of the techniques used. What is the purposed nature of the “agricultural policies” that fix the problem???

How about we stop subsidizing cheap US grain production to start with?

Are they supposed to mandate subsistance farming?[/I]

Nobody is saying a foreign govt should mandate subsistence farming but why should outside corporate ag interests influence the decisions of those govts as well. This is nothing new – I’m sure you’ve heard of the term “banana republic”. And it is still wrong. Also, land ownership in many of these countries is in the hands of a few wealthy families, groups or corporations. I doubt they care one bit about feeding people in their nation. That’s why there has been an attempt at land reform in places like Brazil. Not perfect but it’s a step in the right direction.

How would you feel about the government telling you what you have to grow?[/I]

The already do in the EU (essentially) and here they tell us what we can’t grow via regulation (ask Carl and all the small meat and cheese folks in VT). The regs are also what tilts the playing field toward large commercial farms.

Should the policies increase tariffs of foreign grain even if large segments of the population can’t afford it?

I don’t understand this question but are you saying should a country like Niger increase the tariff on imported wheat to encourage local wheat production? I say why not if wheat is something reasonable to produce in Niger. That said, one BIG issue is market stability within a country. Many of theses places have no way to moderate price swings based on yearly changes in production – I know that sounds like a price support system and perhaps it is but for product used within the country – not applied to exports.

Should these countries subsidize grain production with non-existant coffers?[/I]

The coffers are existant. They just aren’t used to help produce local food for the nation. They end up in the pockets of all the “leaders” of those nations and we turn a blind eye because we got the market outlet we were after for our overproduction of grain.

[I]Should they outlaw trade with industrilized countries?[/I]

No. But you can’t sell off your nation and its people for a few pieces of gold in your own personal bank account either.

Maybe nationalize and redistribute land to people who do not know what to do with it?[/I]

Do you own land? And you’re going to say this? Wow, Andy, I think you and I both could easily be in the group that would be labelled “unworthy” of landownership. Plus, I would argue that an inexperienced landower growing food for local consumption and sale is still better than a super farmer growing soybeans that all get exported.

Are western nations really going to stand idolly by while populations starve because of these self-sufficiency policies?

We stand idle when govts commit genocide so careful about the “we’re so holy” stuff. I would say that there’s money and “feel goodness” in sending food aid and it does help the acute problem while exacerbating the chronic one.

Perhaps by giving these countries the best tools and techniques instead of perpetual handouts, they will eventually obtain higher levels of self sufficiency.[/I]

Many in US ag hate this idea. They say “Why should we “give away” technology that we spent millions on developing just so a country with a lower standard of living can benefit and we lose a market?”

[near horse]

@goodcompanion 25218 wrote:

“I don’t think it’s right for people to do things like that with fish.” –Marge Simpson

The bit about the dolphin was a joke of course. Dolphins are way too sophisticated to attend my alma mater. The student in question was actually a type of manta ray.

I have a great idea to add to your great idea. What if I tow the rotor to Amherst in a flatbed trailer behind an electric car, and use the wind as its going down the interstate to charge the batteries in my car. Then the faster and further I go the more charged up the batteries will be. Or am I missing something?

I was waiting for “So long and thanks for all the fish!” Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

Mmmmm – do ya means youse lectrcal auto mobile cain’t pull nose treeler nor makeit dat fer weet aught no cherge?:eek:

Hey – you just invented the perpetual motion machine!

[near horse]

Worst part is old Jacques wasn’t a marine biologist at all. He was an “adventurer” that young kids thought was a marine biologist. He did work on SCUBA though so I’ll give him that much.

Yea, I changed my path after a couple of ill-fated research cruises – people puking, cold wet and no going back until the appointed time. That was like the carnival ride from hell.

Speaking of carnival rides Erik – come fair season, you could take your rotor to the fair and with some good wind, charge kids $1 or 2 to get inside and let the wind spin ’em – then also sell anti-nausea meds nearby. Now that’s farming!

I’m not sure I want to know how one molests a dolphin!!?

[near horse]

@J-L 25205 wrote:

It’s not as common as it used to be George. There are still some of us around the valley and over to Evanston that do it. Many ranchers are older now and don’t have the energy or drive to hook up.
The savings are substantial. For instance, yesterday is the first day I’ve fed with the tractor all winter. I had my 3 yr old with me (a little sick with a cold) and I didn’t think she’d stand up to 4 hours on the sleigh and forecart at 10 above. I burned 1/2 tank of fuel, 10 gallons. I broke one hydraulic hose which will cost me around $75 to replace. Lost around 2 gallons of fluid. Had to cold start my tractor with ether, which I don’t like to do. Didn’t enjoy it at all.
Really the time savings were small, maybe 1/2 hour less time with the tractor, but with a cab around my little girl it was worth it.
Even without the cost of the breakdowns you’re looking at $35. If I had to plug that tractor in daily and run it around to feed I’m sure we’d be looking at $40 (don’t know for sure). Take that times 150-180 days and it comes to $6000-$7200 in fuel and electricity. Not taking into account maintenance and breakdowns. Pretty spendy.
My tractors and pickups spend the winter doing nothing and not racking up hours and miles. That is a plus. My brother, on his side of the ranch, is feeding with a tractor and bale processor and has worn out a newer tractor than mine in the last 8 years.
I’d like something a little more high tech for feeding the round bales, but what I have works and is cheap. My square baler set up still works and I put some of both up. The square bales are nice to have. I will feed around 7000 of them this year.

Wes-

You are truly a man amongst us boys (and girls) – see highlighted areas above! Keep it up. When I feel overwhelmed and tired, I like to think of you and then I quit whining for awhile:D

[near horse]

Hi Andy-

I think you made part the case for why greenpeace and many other organizations are not onboard with GM products being placed into the environment. It’s all about patent rights (ie money). It is highly unlikely that the folks that did the work on golden rice will just ship it to India to replace the current rice strains – no strings attached.

Part 2 of the concern is the Pandora’s Box of putting GMOs in the environment at all. I personally can accept having GMO’s producing some end product (anti-malarial drugs, insulin or oil for fuel) IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT, like a lab or industrial plant (maybe). But manipulating the genome of an organism by inserting a gene into it that, in all likelihood, would never ever have occurred in nature, even with decades of selective breeding and then dumping it out in nature is going too far and is putting too much faith in our ability to control a powerful, and relatively new, technology.

Our history of thinking we know what all the consequences and ramifications of trying to manipulate our environment is fraught with stories of “unforeseen” disasters, some that we still can’t fix. Your Monsanto case is a good example, that GM pollen is now loose in the environment and indiscriminantly fertilizing both GM and non GM plants. Now, plenty of farmers who have used RR corn or canola are seeing Roundup resistant weeds like never before. Can we ever go back? No. Not until something wipes out that genome completely. BTW – my understanding of the Monsanto case was that said farmer had always saved his own seed back to replant and that when his seed was “contaminated” with a GM genome, the court decided that he had infringed on the patent rights of Monsanto. Not the same as stealing their patent, as infringement would insinuate.

At the very least, Monsanto could have spent more effort in manipulating the genome so that only othe GM plants could be pollinated by its GM pollen – but that costs money.

I’m glad you agree (I think) that you shouldn’t be able to patent a living organism. Too bad the court doesn’t see it that way. That’s why guys like Craig Venter are out like modern day Noahs, collecting as many various organisms as they can to allow them to patent any novel gene they happen to identify. Venter wants us to think of him like Darwin but he’s more like Midas.

Keep GMOs where they belong – in the lab.

Also, any thought to the fact that some of the food/starvation issues in the world have more to do with the agricultural policies of said country than it does with the ability to produce enough food to feed its population? Many countries that require large amounts of annual food aid to feed their own people are exporting large quantities of commodity crops like coffee and cacao to industrialized markets abroad.

[near horse]

One positive story – I read of a couple that pickup and haul(ed) the town’s garbage with a team and a long low-boy type wagon. I know I saved it somewhere on this darn machine.

[near horse]

Wasn’t there a wind-powered (not sails) ship that Jacques Cousteau used toward the end of his “career”? If I recall, it looked like a Savonius rotor, at least it was a vertical axis. Like a big smoke stack with the rotor inside the stack. I saw it a long time ago when I still wanted to be a marine biologist:(

Erik –

what are you using for “bearings”? Also, how will you take the motion and covert it to electricity – belt drive to a generator? Cool.

[near horse]

It’s fine Carl – I only ask because I’m in the midst of going back over our taxes for this year.

Sec 179 is on the depreciation schedule – you can deduct up to the full value of equip etc the first year it’s put into service. The amount you deduct via 179 reduces the depreciation value by that amount.

IMO, limited as my knowledge is, the amount you use in 179 is to have immediate impact on that year’s taxes.

Arrgh – taxes.

[near horse]

I think the number shows the progression of models – 6 was before 7 and 9 was the latest in McCormicks. The 6 is an open gear (no oil bath for the gear box), 7 has the enclosed gear box just a different configuration than the 9 (also oil bath). The gear box on the 9 is considered to be less tongue heavy than the 7 but I don’t think it’s all that true.

JD the mower of choice seems to be the #4 (similar to the McD 9)

As Jay mentioned, good condition, tight and well-timed are the keys to haying w/ few headaches. All those models will do a decent job if they’re serviced up.

Good luck and have fun.

[near horse]

all you need is an occasional shock to keep ’em honest (most of ’em). They know where the fence is if it’s in the same place (permanent). If they get out, I juice it up and wait for them to repeat their breakout. That usually settles them down.

[near horse]

Carl,

Sect 279 or 179? If it’s 279, where is that located?

[near horse]

Hi Wes,

I totally agree and understand where you’re coming from. It’s a fine line between getting public attention for one’s message and turning them off before the message is even heard. Guess that’s why the big dogs have PR departments or even hire it out. I think it gets harder as people’s lives get wrapped around so much other stuff that they can devote one ear for 30 seconds and then zoom – they’re off to something else.

Yep, ecoterrorist is a shocker for most people.

Chaining your naked body to the milkhouse door is best reserved for summer activists!

[near horse]

Hi John,

I think you point out another area where the small farm local food movement needs help. Infrastructure! Your neighbor wouldn’t have to go out of business if there was someone who had the small milk hauling/processing niche covered. See the same thing with slaughter facilities in our area. Eventually, you’re not worth their time and effort. Banks pulled that one a few years ago – managing your pitiful savings account wasn’t worth it to them ….. hmmm what happened to those banks again?:eek:

I sure wish there were some entrepreneurial types who would take on those roles. It seems there are the consumers willing to buy and those who want to produce but the “stuff in between” that builds a community is missing. Unfortunately, that only leaves direct-marketing which is fine but I would like to see more options and viable small communities – not the mass exodus of commuters to jobs many miles off (my spouse included there).

[near horse]

It appears this article was meant to stir the pot and get folks outraged at the EPA.

IMHO the only fat of concern was between the ears of the original writer. Seemingly innocuous substances can have negative impacts on the environment when the volume is large enough. And therein lies the positive – sure when you’re processing 100,000’s of gallons of milk and a line breaks and all of that hits the river, that can be a problem. Or those confinement system manure lagoons – bigger isn’t always better. So another argument for small local production.

If they want to be megasize then they need to take mega precautions.

[Author]

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