[near horse]

George –

What reprimand do you use when your horses try to bob, scratch rub etc? I’m working on getting mine to stop that business but they interpret any feedback through the lines as a sign to step up or back. Just curious on that account.

For situations where there is no place to tie up w/ lead, I wonder about bringing along a home made anchor of sorts. Maybe a smaller bucket filled with concrete and an eye bolt anchored in it? I know the longterm goal is to not have to tie up at all and there are likely potential risks with my thinking, but in cases like Erik’s where you’re in town w/ the public around, it’s sort of insurance. A runaway there could be catastrophic.

[near horse]

😮 Nice one Mitch! I think I’ve had a space on the group W bench for awhile complete with the “mother stabbers and father rapers.”

[near horse]

I just received an e-mail from Paul Starkey – well-known researcher in animal power use world-wide and based out of the Univ of Reading in the UK – in which he was checking on activity or value of their list serv. I thought it might be appropriate to post that information here – so here you go.

ANIMAL-TRACTION-L@LISTSERV.DFN.DE

http://www.animaltraction.com

In addition, they used to publish “Draught Animal News”.

[near horse]

Not to mention that if you buy with credit and pay it off monthly (and thus pay no interest) you are not considered a valued customer by banks. They want people who over spend but diligently make their monthly payments, even if their kids’ only get one decent meal per day. I find it repulsive that there are people who get paid plenty to figure out ways to “screw” the average citizen – ex. exhorbitant overdraft fees etc. I’m still waiting for the word to show up somewhere with my shovels and rakes and implements of destruction (a few torches too). 😡

[near horse]

A couple of thoughts regarding this thread:
1) although it’s happening this week as I recall, I know there are teamsters from Michigan that head down to the Topeka IN sale. I’m not sure how to get a call out to the group down there or if it’s too late but ….
2) I have a friend in MI that does some horselogging, primarily pallet wood I think. Jason, I’ll PM you with his contact info – he might be interested but I can’t speak for him.

[near horse]

Hi Erika,

This seems like one of those internet database issues that CAN be of great benefit to organizing, operating and expanding your market(s) BUT, as you’ve recognized, may be taken advantage of by those that seek to use it as such. You are right to question the legalities.
I’ll PM my Co-op friends andsellers to see if they’ve heard of this and what they’re opinion is of the risk/benefit.
A quick search of the company OX Systems didn’t throw up any red flags that I could see – they are based out of Portland OR.

Geoff

[near horse]

Thanks guys –

I heard the $18,000+ price and winced as well – it seems they followed it up with the comment that one could try and share the cost with neighbors (if you have them), rent it out to others or do some custom work. Still, that’s a pretty big number to overcome = to a brand new square baler (almost).

In the video clip (and I’m totally going from memory here) it seems like one of the Amish guys walking along had to clear some trash off one of the discs – could be I’ve got it mixed up w/ another tool shown.

I’m wondering if one could build one of these out of salvaged materials/parts. Maybe our resident engineer/tinkerer Andy can add this to his list of projects to take on?

I didn’t really understand how these smaller units were able to bust the crust so to speak – on the conventional no-till drills isn’t a lot of the effect from the mass of the drill?

Anyway – I was pretty interested in seeing more on how that thing operated – both mechanically and in performance. If anyone goes to HPD this year, check it out if you’ve got a little time.

Does Esch also make those treadmills or am I mixed up?

[near horse]

@dominiquer60 25598 wrote:

Liz,
Pay no mind to this wise guy, besides eventually you will all smarten up and find yourselves with a pair of steers:) Though I may wise up to a single chunk someday, you never know.
Erika

Thanks Erika -No one’s ever called me wise before. I’m flattered.
Liz – you’re truly welcome here and I hope you see the jest in what in my previous comments. And, I’m wise!

[near horse]

Hi John,

First, thanks for bringing Liz on board. Two extra credit points for you!:)

I agree that the overall sustainability of our current circumstance is not possible but it is also impossible to imagine the kind of shift in society/government/life that is necessary to get to something “sustainable” happening in a single generation. We’re talking chaos. So my point was that biodiesel may be one tool for helping us transition to that new sustainable place with out the anarchy.
As far as the arable land use goes, our local farmers are looking for a crop that fits in the local rainfall regime (<20"/yr), has some cash value and can be inserted into their current cropping system. They feel it's good for their land compared with current summer fallow practices.
No one said what you have to transport with the fuel. Maybe just little grannies to their doctor’s appointments? Or even use it for heating or what have you.
Remember that there’s currently (maybe a little older data) enough food Calories produced worldwide to provide each person on the planet w/ > 3000 Calories/day. It’s just not available to everyone and increased production wouldn’t likely change that aspect.

[near horse]

Hi Andy,

You’re getting everyone all stirred up with your talk of planting and tillage, or at least me. Our soil drains poorly and warms slow so it’s really easy to get antsy and go for it too soon. Plenty of times we’ve experienced the “slab up and turn into bricks” Tim mentioned. I’m sure your soil is much better than ours here. Still probably worth waiting and taking soil temps.

[near horse]

Two teamsters in Scotland? And neither one has yet seen the error of their ways and switched to Belgians? I know – give them time:D

Welcome to the forum Liz. We’re glad you’re here and won’t hold it against you that you’re already acquainted with John.

[near horse]

Hey all,

Let me make a couple of points in defense of biodiesel. First – I think the tractor is the easiest route to try out biodiesel (rather than one’s pickup) in fact it’s almost the only thing he can do at this point – the rig needs to stay off the highway as you’re not paying any fuel tax ’cause you’re not buying fuel and thus aren’t “paying” highway use tax in reality. Same as buying dyed off-road fuel. Second, while many of us use our animals to reduce our use of petro based machines and for plenty of other reasons as well, it is highly unlikely that many of us here are completely free from using petroleum based fuels – even if you ride the bus, catch a lift with a friend or hitch-hike, you’re taking advantage of petro fuel. So what do we do?

I think it’s too easy to look at one’s own situation and say “why doesn’t everyone just do it like me?” The world doesn’t work that way. Realistically, animal power alone can not solve the world’s energy problem and there is going to be the need for some type of more powerful and faster motive power than horses (although they do a wonderful job in many applications). So how do we address those needs?

Biodiesel is not the end all to our needs but IMO is one tool in the shed we can quickly access to stop the crazy petroleum based merry-go-round we are riding. Also, while we might be able to switch to some other fuel source for power we also need to find alternatives for other petro stuff – lubricants, hydraulic oil ….. lots of petro-based stuff out there. The best part is when someone gets out of oilseed production for biodiesel, they can either continue growing for other oil markets (food grade or lubes etc) or rotate to another crop or crop system. In addition, one can potentially get dual use from some oilseed crops with some quality grazing early and still able to harvest a decent oilseed crop.

Perfect, hardly and has plenty of side issues but we have to start trying something different because what we’ve been doing doesn’t work anymore (if it ever really did is up for debate).

[near horse]

“… the old man with the ox cart who collects cut brush is paid the same salary as a doctor, about $35 per month, plus a ration.”

Amen.

This is in comparison to $1000 per month for the old man and >$10,000/month for the Dr in the US.

[near horse]

I tasted some yak last week at our local co-ops “Taste the Palouse” event. It was just burger but tasted pretty good – I think it’s marketed as a lower fat meat.

I didn’t know that yaks were in the Bos genus – so I thought crossing them would be more difficult – more like muskox (Ovibos) which aren’t crossed w/ Bos w/o serious intervention (ie. creating a chimera). Now muskox fiber is some nice, valuable stuff as well, on the order of merino/cashmere/angora.

[near horse]

On the 2nd wagon pic it looks like the supports that attach to the hubs allow he sides to pivot open more, although not completely flat. Perhaps to expand load capacity or ease of loading/unloading?

[Author]

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