[near horse]

Hi Kristi,

Welcome to DAPNet’s DAP.com. The playday sounds like fun AND isn’t too far away.

[near horse]

@Carl Russell 27126 wrote:

I truly feel we will never be able to find energy sources to supply our current needs. I think we need to stop looking at how to power up our lives and start looking at how to power down our lives.

Carl

We need to recognize that we’re never truly generating energy, just converting it into a form that is better utilized by us. If I recall, it’s the First Law of Thermodynamics (I think it’s 1st) – “Energy can be neither created nor destroyed.” Also, we’re inefficient in our ability to transfer E from one form to another. AND – energy taken out of a system is energy lost to that system, although it may be negligible in the bigger picture. Same is true of water but the negligible part is debatable.

This is where I lean toward an “integrated” system – reduce where/when possible and working more towards that end but taking advantage of modern power sources when necessary. Doesn’t come without some soul-searching and guilt sometimes.

Water – always an issue. We integrated a “graywater system” into our house when we built it (err, still building it, now in our 2nd decade).

[near horse]

I spent a little time as part of an online sustainable farm/ranch course – it did not address draft animal-power (nor any other forms of power/energy) as an option (although I did bring it up). The classes seem to focus on developing a “whole farm plan” but IMO, power source is a basic component of any farm plan.

Thanks Erik for bringing this up – I’m more inclined to practice the energy version of IPM (integrated pest management) – some things can be handled using draft-power directly while others, like transportation, might need to be integrated (as you said, charging batteries or something).

A lot of infrastructure has been built over the last 100 yrs that’s not conducive for use by animal power directly – although the Amish seem to be making it work for them. Just my quick thoughts.

BTW- Last night I was reading an article called The Passive House – Green without Gizmos in Fine Homebuilding (April/May 2010) in which they feature some super E efficient houses – 3 main requirements: air infiltration (0.6 changes per hour) BTU consumption (annual E consumption for heating/cooling 4755Btu/sq ft) Total E usage (11.1 kwh/sq ft). R-values were 62 in the roof, 45 in the wall, 35 in the floor…. While the E savings are phenomenal, it’s questionable whether the cost or products used are practical.

[near horse]

“sodar streambank wheatgrass” – Good turf – tough and resilient.

I just received my mower parts shipment complete w/ stub guards and a visiting neighbor said that you have to run hold downs over each stub guard or else hay will push up btw the knife and the guard. I’ve never heard that before – true or not?

[near horse]

Hey Marshall – I think you could say you did alright at $170. As long as you didn’t have to rebuild the wheels. I always get mixed up – is 11-7 “11ft on 7in” or “7ft on 11in”? Just want to try and get it straight again.:confused:

[near horse]

Hi Helen,

Welcome to DAPNet. This place is loaded with good people willing to assist you in whatever way they can. Please don’t concern yourself with “making silly mistakes” – the honest folks all admit they (we) did too and will eagerly provide you with help. So don’t hesitate to ask about anything.

Welcome again and dig in!

[near horse]

Hi Steve,

Not to be sarcastic but really, it seems that HD equipment is worth what someone’s willing to pay for it. Case in point, redone #9 mower at SFJ last year ~$4000 same mower this year, $1200.

To someone who collects, a Thomas drill might be a rare find while a user might see it as “hard to find parts for”. Then add in the features – double-disc openers most desirable, then singles, then hoes (usually). Wood spoked wheels look cool but require more maintenance compared to steel. And drill width. In the west it seems that smaller (6′ -8′) drills were less common than the 10s and 12s so a small drill might be worth more.

After all that, I’ll mention that I’ve seen junk (a pile of rusty metal with wood completely gone) listed at 2 or $300 and I recently saw a topnotch Hoosier 6′ or 7′ drill in almost museum quality condition for $400. So it’s all over the place.

Sorry can’t be more help.

[near horse]

Thanks Phil. I think articles like this are important – especially to many on the “outside looking in” contemplating/wondering if animal-power can be viable and practical or is it just a pipe dream. Articles like this can give folks the courage to take the first step “in from the outside”. So, good job!

[near horse]

Well – I threw together a makeshift prototype and dang if this thing doesn’t work pretty nicely. I used a 12v tire inflator compressor, 1 gal gas tank w/ a valve stem added and a cheap air stone “crammed into” the interior end of the stem. Rigged some 3/4″ vinyl tubing onto fuel spout and then reduced it to 1/2″ w/ a barbed fitting – put a 90 degree ell w/ a 12″ poly pipe in the end to drop the foam closer to the ground. I used the 4 oz of dishsoap in 1 gallon water and it made nice plops (about like shaving cream consistency). The larger design issue is where/how to mount the compressor & tank. Total cost – ~$20 not including the compressor but even with that, I’d say you could do this for under ~$60.

Worked great! Almost. ‘Cept I just spliced the compressor power line (zip cord) into the power line for the sprayer. Worked good for a while then both sprayer and marker would quit operating. When I pulled the 12v cigarette lighter plug out it was super hot – pretty much cooked the switch by running too much current through it (my diagnosis) so the compressor needs to be wired to the battery directly – at least not through the same switch as the sprayer pump. I knew better but impatience got the best of me.

[near horse]

@Steven F 26978 wrote:

If you fall off, you fall ….. in front of it.

While not a serious runaway issue, the same arrangement and risk is inherent in open-cab tractor farming. Falling off is never a good thing. Also, some implements, like side delivery rakes, are under/behind you in their original design for use with horses.

I’m not saying that there’s no risk involved or that OSHA would design things like that but it’s the least worst option.

[near horse]

One added positive to farming is “task variety”. Jobs change over the season – not common in many other vocations!

[near horse]

@Ixy 26954 wrote:

Don’t worry Oldkat, mobstocking’s worked so well on our beef we wouldn’t consider anything else for the dairy! However, we have a couple of things to work out first:

1) where to milk – our farm is one long strip, which means a lot of walking for the cows, and a very chewed up bit of ground that they walk on! Also, we have the beef herd to think about – how do we pick the jerseys out for milking everyday…or do we have to split them…that means completely re-organising the whole place! We would do that, but we’re just considering the possibilities. We might be able to milk out in the field, some kind of mobile parlour maybe…

2) grass based calf rearing. I’ve done a lot of experimenting, and so far results have been largely disappointing. Basically, each jersey calf needs a minimum of 6litres of milk/day for 6months in order to be anywhere near decent without grainfeeding. That’s £1500 per calf to rear in lost milk sales! I think we’ll just have to swallow that, but how to feed the calves? Leaving them with their mums overnight needs a lot of work separating them and possibly even more milk lost – nurse cows is initially labour intensive and a bit haphazard, and would require another separate grazing group. So we’re looking at feeding them ourselves twice a day, and if we have 12 calves, milking out 72litres of milk from the cows, only to deliver it straight to the calves…seems a bit labour intensive to me!

Ixy – a number of years back I thought I saw a mobile parlor setup based off a trailer frame. It had 2 or 4 stanchions, an onboard compressor etc. I think it was in a now defunct magazine – The New Farm – but I’ve not been able to find it.

[near horse]

Not as “pure” as a dry stack wall but have you looked at “slip-forming” stone walls? That’s what the Nearings did when they built their stone house back in the day.

[near horse]

I like this quote as it sums up the issue quite nicely. Thanks John.

Capitalism depends upon capital, but our capital ultimately depends upon the health of Nature’s capital. Whether we like it or not, the two are in fact inseparable.

[near horse]

Funny – I just heard a story yesterday about how modern US farmers are better able to cope with global climate change and the example they gave was due to increased moisture levels farmers have adapted by: 1) spraying for potential fungal issues related to the higher moisture levels and 2) buying/using Bigger (?) equipment so that they can get out into the wetter ground.

Sounds like great adaptations – for the chemical and equipment guys.

In my case, I fertilized last week using my horses and a forecart w/ a drop spreader. Definitely too soft for tractor and some spots for even a 4-wheeler but not for animal power.

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