[mitchmaine]

hey carl, your photos are similar to the one i’m seeing. the fellow with the d-ring has no jack saddle and his pole runs out of the picture, and the ones with the side backers are holding up the pole with their necks. the drawings show no jack saddles either, but appear more like belly backer than d-ring. maybe mike can find something over his way. hope so. les barden seems to be our connection to the past. glad we still have him. i remembered an old picture we have of my great great grandfather and my great grandfather plowing ground on our old farm in north yarmouth. hadn’t seen it in a long long time so i went scurrying around and found it this morning. sidebacker of course. with an old wooden beam plow. i am guessing that my great great grandfather would be 50 in the photo making it around 1880. no luck there, but fun looking at the picture.

[mitchmaine]

hello all,
for the record, i have a photo of d-ring harness on teams of horses in ft. fairfield, me. in the winter of 1894. so its at least that old. ft. fairfield is aroostook and potato country, and the teams are in town with sleds on celebrating selling 4000 barrels of potatos for $1.50 each. a good price i guess. the teams are nice and snug in their harness suggesting that they might have been engineered for that purpose and the teamsters knew it. so maybe andys theory about the harness and the jigger wagon though maybe not invented together, could be related.
oddly, the woods teams in “stump to ship” use side backer in the 1930’s. and most of the photos i find of the teams fitted to sidebacker show long poles and split neckyokes with the yoke hung from the collars by chain and heavy strap. teams of four up show a pole hanging a foot off the ground. presumably for the draft of the leaders and the comfort of the wheelers. stage horses showed ribs deep enough to hold a good sized apple.
there is one photograph of 5 teams pulling a 10 ton boiler to a sawmill on a jiggerwagon and the heavy chain from the load passes through the neckyoke ring of each team and the eveners are hooked of course to the same chain, with two teams behind as a brake.

when any one is showing a picture of their farm and family, usually its in the dooryard and the horses are cleaned brushed and in the center of the picture. showing how important a part they played in the family.

[mitchmaine]

hey andy,

there is a difference between king pins, like auto steering, and a king bolt, which is one bolt centered in the axle to steer the axle separate from the wagon body. the body of these jigger wagons was flat parralell to the ground and hung under the front x. the rear axle was the drop or crank axle and interrestingly weren’t hooked to each other by any means but the body itself. the maine archives has a silas taber who might be our taber guy. he was a potato farmer from houlton, and apparently the jigger wagon, by way of local lore has it that it was designed for potato barrels. and taber just fit a better front axle on it. here in our part of the state, sloven was a common term for a sled and dray. funny that.
on the d-ring, i gat ahold of one historian (who was only a couple nyears older than me), and the one who he said could have told me the story passed away two years ago. i’ve had a long time to ask this question and should have when i had the chance. funny how you lose cofidence in a historian who is only your age.
has anybody thought to ask les barden about the origin of the harness? i’d believe anything he said.

[mitchmaine]

@Countymouse 31767 wrote:

Did the users of the sled wagon use a d-ring or d-ring precurser in 1850? That would predate the underslung wagon (from what I’ve read) and it would blow my theory. Trying to think of regionally unique tools or situations and think about how a d-ring might have addressed problems unique to these tools or situations. Just guessing really.

no mention of the d-ring harness with the sled wagon. and photos show d-ring back to about 1900, prior to that, photos show local harness seems to be side backer. nothing conclusive, but i have a number of a few historians who will certainly scratch their heads when i mention harness. if they bother to return the calls. maybe we will have tyo start calling it new brunswick d-ring harness.

[mitchmaine]

they were called jigger wagons around here, and i have one without wheels. but they came in drop axles, where the axle dropped a foot or so down at the hub and passed under the wagon bed, or the straight axle jigger wagon where the wagon body was suspended under the axle by chains. i’ve only seen them as fifth wheel steering under cut into the body, but the may steer other ways. interesting theory that you havepresented. my inquiries have led to a dead end on the d-ring harness so far, but one thing i did discover is that the sled wagon, as it was called, or the double bob sled with cross chains that we recognize, was developed or invented by a jonas colby of moose river up in jackman (maine) in 1853 for hauling long wood. previous to that, wood was move on a single sled similar to carl and brads method.

[mitchmaine]

great picture carl. that does look like a load. also, i can see that the picture is curled, but by the line of window ledges and the curb, would you say the horses were actually holding the wagon back a bit? looks like a strain on the britchin. he looks like a young teamster. harness looks snug. what do you think of the harnessing job? the wagon is like a jigger wagon. only really heavy built. great picture, thanks carl. they have tons of old photographs up at the state museum, that i have heard about but too lazy to go look through. some cold blustery day i got to take a ride. mitch

[mitchmaine]

not sure if this has been said before. i looked around and couldn’t find any evidence of it, but it was common, up here, to bolt on pulp bunks above the log bunks if you were moving any four foot wood. pretty simple. two eight foot long five inch diameter spruce poles laid length wise on top of the bunks, three foot on center, bolted through the log bunks, with stake pockets at each end. unpeeled to give some tooth to keep the wood from sliding off the load. usually required a chain and binder as well to keep everything put.

[mitchmaine]

good deal george, sounds like you are slowing your scoot down. just the opposite here. we got 6″ soft snow and 2″rain yesterday and i worried about the ice, but it made a thin crust that packs down under the weight of the scoot and man, is it slippery. loaded the scoot with about a half cord and away they go. couldn’t be better. i remember seeing bridle shoes that went on the big wood sleds up north. iron bar that rode under the sled runners with a short peice of chain on each side hooked into a hook on the top of the runner. and still they would have to snub the loads down over some steep runs with heavy rope run out and turned around a treetrunk. i should have said something about the chain under the scoot. its just like an evener or single tree jumping over roots and stumps. deives me crazy. i try and cut the roads pretty clear of stubs. you can’t snub your horse up too many times before he stopsw beleiving in you. good luck and stay safe on those hillsides. mitch

[mitchmaine]

hi tim,
putting the brakes on. amazing how that little bit of chain stops that load. i try and ride the stoneboat when its not to steep, mostly for the weight. helps keep it put, but i get a little lazy now and then and enjoy the ride.
i was twitching some good size pine the other day and used our team, and was surprised to see how much the young one has grown. dragging the evener on the ground empty, he was clipping his heels on his single tree. new heel chains. seems like i am always adjusting harness. is it the same with the steers? i just picked up a nice pair of milk shorthorn heifers in a trade. not bred. two years old, and i was reading an article by a fellow who talked about driving a team of unbred heifers. slow and steady. i’ll probably beef them, but who knows. everything has a price. we just got our first plowable snow up here, so it looks like i can finally put a proper load on the scoot. best wishes, mitch

[mitchmaine]

hey george, don’t want to beat a dead horse, but the harness should be snug, and from the photo yours looks good. also, low britchin will take a horse off his feet, but again, yours looks good from here.
a scoot is a different critter than a set of bob sleds. i think i know what you mean by herky-jerky, and it sounds like your scoot is walking on the bridal chains. you could try taking a twelve foot peice of chain and laying it in front of the runners, hooking each end into the front stake and pulling forward over the chain. it should come taught about a foot or so behind the front bunk. it is in a better position back there to keep the scoot steady. its under the load rather than in front of it. and connected to each other so it works on both runners the same. might work. its what i do here on what hills we can find. you can also hook that same chain, when you are on flat going, to the rear stakes the same way and tow it behind the scoot and it sweeps the snow back into the tracks and helps to pack your woods road. i also use the same chain under my stoneboat when i go in with the twitch horse and my gear, to help hold it from running up on her. worth a try. hope it works for you. mitch

[mitchmaine]

hey john,

that is one amazing little horse you have there, judging by the facebook photographs. and i don’t mean little in any other sense than affection. i can see she ain’t too big, but she doesn’t seem to know or care. did you get to drive her? is she for sale???

just wondering what happens to your woodpile over there. firewood, sawmills, turning mills? and if there is a wood economy of some kind. is your sitka our alaska spruce? my fatherinlaw brought us a deal table years ago. its supposedto be a few hundred years old, and i beleive it. the frame is drilled and pinned and the top, which lays down, is planks fit into aclamp on each end. handplaned, but its softwood for sure, looks like a kind of pine, but not ours. we grow a scots pine over here for christmas trees, but i can’t remember seeing one that got too big. i’ll look around and see. best wishes, mitch

[mitchmaine]

hey john,
nice horse. i saw a team of ardiennes at john waterers. liked those horses alot. he was working with them for a woman logger named frankie. met her too. good luck with your new horses.
i was wondering if you and simon would tell us something about the logging bussiness in uk. how they buy and sell wood there. and what markets are strong and what species of trees are valuable. seems like i remember alot of hardwood. beech and oak. what is deal? i remember wondering about it when we were over there. LOTS of wood, but not a strong indication of cutting, but then again, i didn’t get to far afield. good luck again with thoat new team. mitch

[mitchmaine]

jay, i have a sled with a dog bolted through the rear runner. it looks like a pulp hook and drags behind the runner and dogs in if you stop in the middle of a hill and holds the sled. or it can be flipped up out of the way when not needed. but it doesn’t sound like what you are describing. sure would like to see a photo of that one if possible. thanks, mitch

[mitchmaine]

Hey George,
I have only put the moccasin on my wood shod scoot and sap sled. Twice on the sap sled and once on the woodscoot. Its been about seven years though, and results are excellent. Not a study at all, but gut feelings. The shoes are wider than the runner, and I thought the greater area would rip the shoes off, but under lots of weight they seem to stay put. The bearing is of course only two inces wide on the extreme bottom and with the edges beveled and relieved, turning is maybe even easier. But it’s a snap to do. Flip the scoot over and ten seconds and a sharp saw later, done. I know john plowden made a sled with and for brad Johnson. And I saw pics on face book, but can’t remember if they were moccasin or not. But it sure was a nice job. Have to wait and here what brad has to say.

Carl makes a great point. One I’d never even thought about. Any ten men or women running the same saw, will start and run it differently due to size, shape and strength of the individual. So we create the harness (tool), and each horse works in it and finds his spot or way to use it with the most comfort and ease he can find or that we offer in harness adjustment. The minute you said it, I could see all my different horses, and the different ways they worked, give them a link, what ever it took to coax a little more out of them. Neat. I really like this forum.

[mitchmaine]

my apologies too for steering the thread askew. that said, tom, i would take andys logic line, and guess that the wooden shod scoot is a primitive farm tool made on the farm by the farmer and wood was abundant and steel was specialized and even tho probably most farms had a smithy, scoots could be a quick cheap alternative. that would be my guess.
when i first heard the term mocassin runner i thought the fellow talking was pointing at the steel runner of the sled. he said rounded, and i thought he was describing the hand forged hammered out steel runner. later someone else straightened me out and pointed out the difference between the “village sled” which was the same thickness runner as the steel runner. and rode around on packed snow all the time and didn’t need to be heavy up top or worry about not sinking through heavy deep snow.

andy, great question. i don’t think there was any judgement in the first question. i think the way i work, like here on the website, is if i hear a good peice of advice, and it seems to make sense, i try it, and if it works, i do it. if it doesn’t work for me, i most likely drop it, but allow that it may work for someone else. and i like your idea about sounding out and chasing out the old regional tools and so on. mitch

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