[goodcompanion]

100 x 100 is a quarter acre, more or less. To do that with a single is pretty ambitious in my book. I am satisfied (at least for now) when I turn down that much in a day with a team.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Think of it this way. You turned two good furrows today (or at least ones good enough that you don’t care to try them again) Make it four tomorrow. Eight the next day. Or something like that.

Walking plows offer a lot of intuitive challenges that all have to be right or none of it works. Give yourself and the horse some time.

[goodcompanion]

@mitchmaine 17955 wrote:

carl, they’d love you over there. all you’d have to say is draft horse and i know two places you’d stay for awhile. wonder if it’s changed much in thirty years? probably. i was thinking about our history over here, and somebody from england told me “well, you haven’t been gone all that long, have you?” kinda put it in perspective. like going home to see the folks. erik, do you know anymore about that plow? thanks, mitch

It looks exactly like a plow pictured in John Seymour’s Self-Sufficiency. One of my favorite, favorite books.

[goodcompanion]

Thanks for the post! Great to read about your travels and insights.

I think that type of plow is what they call a “turnwrest” plow over there?

[goodcompanion]

Here I have attached, I think, a copy of the plan for the historic vehicle I’m kind of copying and a photo of the new crossbeam that receives the front axle auxillary spring.

Now I have the chassis that supports the deck of the box all assembled and glued up. The deck I think I am going to cheat on and use plywood. Then it is on to the walls, which have studs visible only from the inside with a light plywood sheathing. The roof has a compound curve to it in front so that should be interesting.

[goodcompanion]

Thanks for the encouragement. This is one of those projects that I have wanted to get into for some time, but it’s never been obvious that it would be a cost-effective investment of time or money. Other more proven things always take precedence. But now we have a little window of time and a few resources with which to proceed. I kind of think that it will be successful beyond my extremely modest expectations, but of course time will tell. There are no comparable enterprises to serve as a model for what we might expect.

Today was the first day of construction. I don’t have the new 34″ wheels from Amish country yet but I made a mock-up of such a wheel with a piece of plywood, and a mock-up of the deck of the box at the desired elevation. Using this mock-up we were able to determine that the finished deck would sit level and allow for 30 degree turns.

Today, with the help of my two apprentices I made the pillow blocks for the four springs and the basic frame that will support the deck. I am cutting mortise-and-tenon joints for all the main framing members to help the box resist racking while on the road.

The ash came rough-cut from the sawmill but those two apprentices spent all of yesterday finish-planing the entire stack by hand. They didn’t complain of any soreness today which tells you something of their general appetite for labor. I got lucky this year, I really think.

Yesterday I went before the Vergennes city council and was approved to become a licensed “peddler” for $100 per year. I need to coordinate with the city manager to find the best tie-up locations for the horse to best accommodate considerations of public safety and public grounds. My preferred spot would be on the city green, off the roadway, and tied up to a bike rack. But at curbside and tied up to a lamppost would be okay too.

We also plan a vending stop down by the docks where the lake boats pull in to get provisions and a third in Ferrisburgh where a trendy gas station/convenience store has agreed to let us do our thing.

Tomorrow I will take the camera into the shop and document progress. I will try to keep this thread updated on the construction and from there into the field as we begin the vending route.

[goodcompanion]

I have read recently about a type of agritourism on the rise in the east, the farm-stay. Accommodations generally primitive (cabin or tent, lanterns, woodstove), food and cooking facilities provided, some limited involvement of guests in the working of the farm. Fees in the neighborhood of $150-200 per day.

I can’t say I haven’t considered it! A few weeks a year of having a few guests would defray a lot of expenses. I’m interested in knowing whether any draft practitioners have gone this route.

[goodcompanion]

From what I’ve observed the hydraulic accumulators power relatively weak hydraulics, such as lifting a scraper blade or plow bottom that you probably could have lifted with a long lever. Even the smallest pto backhoe probably requires something in the neighborhood of 20 hp, maybe I’m wrong but I don’t see how you could generate that kind of hydraulic pressure through an accumulator or through dc storage and a motor.

I admit I haven’t read the thread about needing a tractor for bucket work. That said, I feel like I “need” a tractor around for bucket work too, only because we live in a backwards economy where food is cheap and farms are chronically too cash poor to pay for much human labor. But in a sane economy everything I do with my tractor bucket would easily be accomplished by a bunch of laborers with simple hand tools.

I think of my tractor bucket as a temporary crutch to allow me to function until the value of farming rises relative to the value of other pursuits. Given that our current cheap, overabundant food is an anomaly in the whole scope of agricultural history, I don’t feel it’s necessary to go to great lengths to adapt to a high-priced labor market.

[goodcompanion]

Well, I certainly don’t feel ready to shoe my own horses. However I can trim adequately and fortunately don’t have to shoe for the conditions on my farm. This rules out work in a lot of winter conditions but I can’t afford to hire a farrier and farm profitably.

For instance I would love to plow snow with my horses but I choose to do so with a tractor instead because, given the cost of shoeing, it’s incredibly cheaper. Whereas I plow, harrow, cultivate, seed and hay with horses because it’s cheaper than doing that work with a tractor as well as more enjoyable.

If shoeing were required for my typical conditions I would have had to choose by now between teaching myself to shoe (which I’ll agree, is an art and serious business), and getting out of horses altogether. It takes three drafts to pull a plow in my land and if I had to pay the $4000 or so dollars for it would cost to keep them shod every year, well, that would buy a lot of diesel fuel. Or biodiesel, or whatever. Paying for this service would have a severe negative impact on the economics of what I am trying to do. A deal-breaker, in fact.

I would bet that most people who are are dedicated to working horses as an affordable, sensible approach to getting real work done would not see that kind of a bill as a reasonable expense.

[goodcompanion]

@aaronlee 16934 wrote:

Hi all,

To my limited knowledge, there is nothing about horses that is cheap. Unless you are truly using your horse to make you money, owning a horse will always be a financial loss.

This site is dedicated to those who use animal power to perform real work and therefore probably make money. So you might encounter more of a reluctance to defer to professionals here on this site than elsewhere in the equestrian world.

There is nothing wrong about being a professional and providing professional service. I would say the same for electricians or mechanics or accountants or any of the many other professionals out there who generally make more money from their professions than I do from mine. But I can’t afford their services unless there is absolutely no way that I can make do for myself.

[goodcompanion]

Andrea sent me some photos so I can speak to what this is. Andrea, I suggest you post them in the photo gallery?

How many horses the device requires depends on what task is being performed with the rotary power. It is a turnstile-type treadmill. Looking at the old illustration I have a hard time imagining 21 horses being hooked to it, just because of the space required for 21 horses to move around in a circle, but perhaps it’s possible. Large jobs like running a thresher would require more than two horses, but probably fewer than 21.

Keep in mind that the “ground power” device is not a thresher, or a saw. It is–as far as I can tell–just a transmission that turns muscle power into rotary motion that can then be used for other devices (like a thresher or a saw) that require them.

[goodcompanion]

Thanks for the responses. Having never turned clay pasture into rice paddy before, I don’t know how gooey the mud on the bottom will be, or how deep a horse is likely to sink. I expect it will be rather gooey.

The goal of this kind of tillage is to turn a basin with standing clear water in it into thick mud by churning up the bottom so that the water is suspended. But since the water is stagnant, no flow through, during this process there is no erosion and the dirt settles uniformly back down onto the bottom. This is known in English as “puddling” and is the process of preparing the paddy for planting. After this there need be no more animals in the field until harvest when the paddy is drained. I hope to harvest with my reaper-binder, but maybe this is dreaming!

The only peer I have is Takeshi and Linda Akaogi, whose method I recently learned. I don’t think they have yet arrived at a good method for puddling. A tractor cannot do the job without special tires. However puddling by hand they have gotten good pruduction from hayayuki, matsumae, and yukihikare. I am trying hayayuki and matsumae. They are both cold-tolerant varieties from Hokkaido.

The only reason we don’t think of rice as possible in New England is because nobody has ever really tried. The more I learn about it the more I think it fits. I lived in Japan for a year, didn’t really care for the experience much, but rice growing is cool. The weird game shows and drunk businessmen and their schoolgirl porn I can do without.

[goodcompanion]

@Berta 16587 wrote:

I worked with two waterbuffalo in central MA, they wern’t trained for draft but seemed alright with the cool winter.

Haveing worked (riding) horses in the mud and now my team of jersy steers, I’d just get a team of oxen for rice work. the spit hoof really seems to pull out easier than a single toe – no lost shoes to worry about either. that and with a yoke there is less equipment to clean at the end of the day.

EDIT:
I opened two windows, one for you post, one in oxen titled “Water buffalo”. I now realize that you aren’t actually the one looking for info on buffalo. I won’t delete this post but sorry if it doesn’t answer your question.

Well, actually your other thread inspired me to make this post. I doubt I’d get additional draft animals just for rice, even if oxen or water buffalo are better suited. I feel like I have enough draft power here already, and the rice puddling is only a small operation in the whole farm context. I do worry about the suction on the clay bottom but it’s worth trying. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. I could still consider pulling a harrow through the paddy from a distance, with a chain, and the horses pulling on dry land.

[goodcompanion]

I exactly agree with the above. Why plow early, when it’s the most waterlogged and difficult, when a discing would suffice. We’re not after a pure crop of buckwheat anyway. By mid-May there will be some weeds in that corn stubble, just harrow them dead and plant your buckwheat. As long as the buckwheat generally outcompetes the weeds you are fine.

[goodcompanion]

I have some pretty tired fields and here is my program for this year for what it’s worth. Three successive plantings of buckwheat in one season, planted in May, June, and July, followed by a September planting of winter wheat. Each crop of buckwheat would be tilled under after a month. That is a lot of tillage but it is also a lot of weeds sprouted and subsequently killed and a lot of green matter returned to the soil in a single season.

[goodcompanion]

We are currently in the process of applying for grants for a low-tech vertical axis wind turbine. Not pretty, not super efficient, but cheap to build and install and reliable as all get out. I am working with a retired turbine engineer on the proposal–he estimates that the prototype will generate sufficient power to offset its extremely modest material cost in under two years.

This engineer says that low-tech wind gets no cred from the engineering community because it does not lend itself to large scale applications and can’t be refined to high degrees of efficiency. But who cares about that if small-scale is all you want, and you can build something out of workaday materials that’s crude but effective, and easily can make your meter run backwards on a typical small farm with moderate power consumption.

Earlier on we looked into one of those Bergey turbines Carl mentioned. But the ridiculous cost for the yield, and the necessity for specialized parts and labor for every aspect of its installation and maintenance was very discouraging. Even the wind consultant trying to sell us on the project acknowledged that getting one was not really very rational, and most units were sold to people without any grid access, or to the very rich.

Anyway, a 10kw unit was $36,000–various incentives would pay 20k out of the public purse, leaving us to pay 16k, in order to generate enough power to negate a $100 / month electric bill. Didn’t make any sense ‘tall. Made for a 13-14 year payback just for our part (30yr overall), except for during that time it would almost certainly require a lot of parts and specialized labor.

Anyway, our low-tech power grant is pending, if we get approved the resulting design will be public domain and I will personally be putting a lot of effort into publicizing it.

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