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- November 5, 2009 at 11:10 am in reply to: To All Who Try To Sell Others On The Idea Of Sustainable Farming, Forestry. #54754
Donn Hewes
KeymasterWow, What a crazy thread! I tried to stay out but just couldn’t resist. Dear Mr. Bumpus, I hate to admit it but I take a slight offense to your premise that someone should try harder to explain things. I will tell you why. If I viewed what we do here as an online class room where one “expert” stood up front and talked while the rest of us listened I might begin to agree; but then I wouldn’t be here. To me this is an online version of folks meeting at the local dinner for coffee on a rainy morning. We may have started as strangers, but we are slowly getting to know (and trust) each other. There is a lot about us that is different form one and other, but we also have much we share in common.
At a coffee table it is just rude to suggest that someone is not holding up their end of the conversation.Sustainability Now the thread really goes walk about! Just a few points to consider. Sustainability, for all it appears to imply simplicity, is anything but. First you need to all agree on who or what you wish to sustain, and for how long. Some folks refer to their family or farm and it implies one generation or two. Some folks are talking about all humanity and a few thousand years. These are really different, and the issues that would need to be addressed are different. Sustainability is fascinating stuff, and I believe while we are stumbling around looking for it, it will come up and whack us in the head. I truly believe that we will be told in no uncertain terms what we can and can not do to survive.
Finally, just because we have failed to share the commons in the past, don’t rule out the “return of the Commons” in the future. One of the winners of this years Nobel prize for economics as been demonstrating examples of the “Commons” being shared for communal interests. We will need to learn these skills going forward. I didn’t vote – I need more coffee, Donn
Donn Hewes
KeymasterHere is one guys opinion. A car engine would be way more than you need and want. I use a 24 hp. Honda – gas. When I built the cart I would have liked to use diesel also, but all the available motors were bigger and more expensive. I wanted a new motor as I didn’t want a lot of time trying to fix something. If you look for some old threads you will find some pictures of my cart and various discussions on different cart options. Donn Let me know if you can’t find them.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterHi John, Now I am not one of the professional horse loggers here but I did have one small suggestion. Practice with your mare bringing the line over her back to which ever side you are on. For a horse that is green or untrusted it is a good idea to start out bracketing them (keeping one line on each side of their butt as you are), but it is far safer for you walk a couple feet off to the side. She will get to were you can lift the lines over her back and switch from side to side with out a hick up. Much easier to negotiate the woods that way. Just a thought. A single horse will drive perfectly straight and true even when you are several feet to one side. It works perfectly well with a team also but it will put one horse a touch in front of the other. She looks great and you are doing a great jobs. In my opinion the woods is the absolute best place to start a horse because of all the stopping, hooking and working together to get something done. Nice.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterThanks Aaron, those were awesome. Could you bring a couple of those back for me?
Donn Hewes
KeymasterHi Pete, You can switch to blinders when ever you want. but I think what you are asking her to do is well with her reach with or with out blinders. Are you working in an enclosed area or out in the open? Are you driving her? Is she just looking behind her or is she trying to get away from it? how hard? If she is just looking back, give her something else to look at / think about. Make her steer in and around a tree, a wagon, something on the ground. If she is really over reacting consider making the area you are in smaller. A round pen, or a small paddock. Sometimes I separate the driving from the pulling by using a lead and letting them go in a circle around me, (horses all ways need both directions). If you can keep her calm, and walking you may even work her around you with out the lead. Some times I start with just one tug on the ground. keeping her calm and relaxed should be your #1 goal. Good luck.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterFound it! thanks all.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterThere really isn’t much to confuse him with. Would you rather ride him tomorrow or drive him to work? Figure out what you want to do and start there. If you spend three days teaching a horse to drive and on the fourth day you get on it’s back, that shouldn’t mess up his abilitity to continue learning to drive on the next day. When you have a clear picture of the purpose you are training for; say you need fire wood and want to skid it with the horse ( that is just one example of a clear purpose); the training will become clear and direct. Something the horse can relate to. What is it you want to do with the horse, right now? DH
Donn Hewes
Keymasterhi Miniclyde, Buy the harness you want to use for the purpose you want, and use it while you are training. I have helped a few very experienced horse folks start out in driving a work animal. In every case finding some help made the process easier for the new teamster and the horse. Not to say you can’t do it with out that – just that I believe it makes it easier.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterJust a question to help others understand what might have happened. Did the plow have a tongue on it? If it didn’t it should have. Glad everyone was OK. Donn
Donn Hewes
Keymasteri have never pulled a round baler but am pretty sure it would work fine. We wanted to do it last year at NEAPFD but were short a piece to hitch it to the cart.
At home we prefer small square bales for a variety of reasons. I have all ways maintained that a good round bale was as good as a good square bale; but the average wasn’t as good. Most of our hay goes to pregnant sheep so quality is very important to us. We also like feeding in the winter with out starting any equip. We used to have two tractors, one for the snow plow and one for the spike in the winter, but now only one.
Your spare push bars were exactly like what I found. Some of those will never work with out being bent. The only draw back to trying to hing it is the tremendous force built up right there. That is why the bar is so thick.
As for the ground drive carts, I think it will be hard to make something more efficient than the best of the old style mowers. I would love to see some one make a new one. Some one once said there was a place in Poland were they made them. Don’t know if that is true – would love to see it if it was.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterI think adjusting the push bar threads to achieve proper lead is a method that may be limited to mowers that only lack a small amount of lead. I think one thing you will note as you try to get the lead and timing this way is that when you are done you will be pulling on the timing bar to get it back on the mower at the flywheel. I have also found on mowers that needed more than a little lead that I was torgueing the pitman so it wasn’t square to the drive shaft.
After I talked with Leon Brubaker about bending a push bar I went and compared two old push bars I have from mowers I have taken a part and a third from the one I was currently putting together. None of them matched. the one with the best angles got me the best lead, but even after I tried to adjust it a few times I was still lacking about an inch. I think I had gotten all I could and the mower works OK. That is the bar I will compare with their rebent in a couple weeks and see if that can make for a perfect lead.
These are just some things I am thinking about. I have found the mower book to be very useful, and wouldn’t want to take a mower apart with out it. Just something to think about.
Donn Hewes
KeymasterJason, What do I have to do as Chairman? If you want me to help I can. I guess I better start looking for my DAP tee shirt. I told my wife today that I might need to go to Tenn. I think she took it really well. Donn
Donn Hewes
KeymasterIt is too far for me to go, but I would love to be there. Someone driving from the NE might tempt me to go along. Donn
Donn Hewes
KeymasterThank you, It was a lot of fun for me, and I got a lot of help. Given all the limitations of the weather I thought we put on a pretty good show. I will try to find a couple pictures to post. Mostly I would like to encourage others to plan similar events. NOFA NY did a great job with advertising, parking, etc. and that made it easy for me to have a crowd of about 50 people for the afternoon. Donn
PS. I put in my plug for DAP and NEAPFD!
Donn Hewes
KeymasterHi Larry, I think you have gotten some excellent feed back already, and I know a person can easily get more feed back than they want or need at one time. I get the sense that you are really thinking about what is said. One little thing struck me from your earlier comments. In reference to trying to lead all three, you said you wouldn’t be going anywhere fast. I think I know what you mean; they would be going in three directions, one starts while one stops, etc. But I general I find folks sometime rush their horses a little. I too will use a stick or something if I need to give a poke to someone, but I find it is pretty infrequent. Young animals are often thinking ten times more than they need to, but to some extent you just need to let them think. Walking slow can be incredibly frustrating, but in my experience a horse or a mule will speed up of their own accord if I give them a little time and space. I started a horse on a mowing machine the other day. The only thing she did wrong all day was she walked a little slow for the first half hour. I had to encourage her a little just to keep the knife moving. But I kept it low and soft, and let her figure it out. She is a big horse and in no time she was ready to walk up with anyone here. I would much rather have that for the first time on a mower than a horse that wants to take off. Don’t be afraid to let them go slow.
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