[Donn Hewes]

hi Ed, They are nice looking horses and will work well together. Here are a few thoughts. Have either of you worked with a team before? In the picture above were they being driven as a team? There doesn’t appear to be much space between their heads. This would be caused by the lines not being set up right. (after looking at the picture more closely – those lines are probably not on right / set up right).

From my perspective the sniffing, turning, squealing, and kicking should have been done while they were turned out loose together. They are doing the natural pecking order behavior, just don’t want it in harness. As soon as they are harnessed, the teamster should take over all the leadership positions and turning and kicking are not permitted.

If neither of you has any experience driving or working with a team you might want someone to look over the set up. You can definitely share this team. There are plenty of ways that would work, but what I would do is work together. Take turns driving them for 15 minutes or so. You will naturally start to meld your commands and the horses will learn to recognize both of you as leaders. Grey’s suggestions above were right on, good for any one that is just starting a horse or team they are not sure of.

There is a thing called the three step rule. When you start a green horse (or team) to a new piece of equipment you know ahead of time you only plan to go three steps and stop. This way you are already stopping before you realize (or the horse realizes) that something is not quite right or bothering them. If everything is good you start again. Good safety practice.

[Donn Hewes]

hi George, First the short answer. Yes, center fired evener is perfect for a off set tongue. You already figured out some of the advantages – you can use a doubletree and singletree you already have. When hooked to a tongue the animal power will be centered in front of you.

How much to move the tongue is simple. You measure the evener from the point of draft to the center of the space between first and second horse. You can put the singletree on one side and the double tree on the other or you can split the doubletree over the tongue. What ever will help hold the whole thing up.

On hitching remember to attach the neck yoke in some way. There is nothing stopping the third horse from stepping back and letting the neck yoke fall off. It can take a little practice to figure how tight to hook as when that third horse is standing relaxed, the hitch of the other two may be tighter than it looks. Just look while they are working and see if it looks too tight, adjust accordingly.

I don’t think it was mentioned earlier but most all pioneer forecarts were made to have their tongues moved to either side. Just look under the seat tube.

[Donn Hewes]

My cart is home made as well. Three wheeled with a 25 hp honda engine. You can see some pictures of it mowing and baleing on my web album.

[Donn Hewes]

I once had a neighbor who had a pair of halflingers that were all ways a little “up”. he use to trot them up and down the drive way first thing every time he hooked them up, “just to help them relax”. It never worked. In fact most everything he did, didn’t help them relax. It was his temperament that was the problem, I would say.

[Donn Hewes]

Good Advice above, one more thing. Don’t feel bad about bit him down, as that is what that is there for. Just train your self to send signals that he can use to figure out what you want. Avoid providing him with resistance when he wants something to pull against. If you can do that, it is not a harsh bit.

[Donn Hewes]

I don’t believe light work ever ruined a horse. Say you got in the cart and said to the horse, “I need to go to town” it is only five miles each way – we should be home for lunch. It is no longer light work, it is just work. I am guessing that what the horse is reacting to is not the light work so much as work with out much purpose.

Some good work horses it is not easy to make them relax. It is either a flaw in their training or a flaw in their temperament. I just keep looking for ways to help them relax. Some times these horses are very in tune with how relaxed the people are. When you are focused on a slip scrap or something, you probably appear relaxed to them.

Of course, I am totally guessing here. There are many possibilities with out seeing the animal and how it is really reacting to what is being asked for.

[Donn Hewes]

There is a reason thousands of amish farms pull a motorized baler and bale onto a wagon. It is very efficient. I have used one of the “pop up” bale loaders out west once but I have never seen one in the east. If I start to bale hay with out a wagon, no one will start to pick it up until I am done, maybe 6:30 or 7pm. If I take a wagon and a second person, ( a very pleasant job by the way) at 6:30 or 7pm all my wagons are full. Unload one and put two under the shed if need be. After a few years of hay making, putting bales on the ground (because of lame horses or other problems) is agonizing to me.

If I only had two horses, I guess I would have to bale on the ground and come back and pick up the hay(in that case a pop up bale loader would be great). I would not make as many bales in a year. Maybe the difference would be the amount those two extra horses ate. No it would be more than that, so I guess part of the answer is how much hay you want.

[Donn Hewes]

If you are already making loose hay, why go back? I would make loose hay myself but for two reasons. First, I don’t have a barn to put it in, and in our climate you would have a fair bit of loss with an outside hay stack. Second my wife really hates the idea. It is nice to have someone feed your animals for a couple days in mid winter, and just say “four bales here, two bales there.”

Still may make loose hay some day. I use a gas powered PTO cart and I like it a lot.

[Donn Hewes]

Nicely said Jen, you captured a lot of the ideas above. I especially liked “used energy effieciently”. That is the reason why. Learning to understand them a little and learning to adapt myself a little is all about doing it the easy way. Thanks, Donn

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Jac, there are a lot of variables that go into how many horses you would need. Some are; how many bales in a day? Flat ground or hills. How big are the horses and how much regular work they got. Just for starters.

Having said that, I believe four good horses would pull the baler (with out the wagon) on most flatish ground. I think they would be working pretty good and would tire before the day was done. Add at least two for the hay wagon, and there are losses in most multiple hitches. I feel eight would be an effective team for baling hay that way. Others might suggest less. I base all this only on seeing the machine operate at HPD a few years ago. I did talk to Mr. Graber once about how it works and prices. He was very friendly and helpful. He would sell a kit, but it was still expensive, and you put it on your baler. I have not seen a ground drive round baler. good luck. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

hi Jac, The ground driven square baler has been demoed at the horse progress days for several years.

(GRABER, SAM – 6405N 775E, Montgomery IN 47558. (Local farmer).

Baler – Mr. Graber furnished a John Deere 328 square baler that had been converted to ground drive. The stock wheels had been replaced by large, heavy wheels with bolt-on rubber tractor tread. Just inside the left wheel was a large sprocket from which a heavy roller chain drove a smaller sprocket on the inside end of a short jack shaft. Another chain from a larger sprocket on the outside end of the jack shaft then drove a small sprocket on the baler’s flywheel. In the field the baler was pulled by four Belgians on a White Horse basic forecart.

I cut and pasted from the Rural Heritage site list for equipment at last years event. You can find a link in another thread here some where.

Their design all ways uses a JD baler as a base, because the flywheel is perpendicular to the pto shaft and inline with the direction of travel. I think they are pretty willing to talk about how to do it. The only real draw back I saw was needing more horses. I really don’t like dropping bales on the ground and going to pick them up later. Gotta go feed some horses. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

Hi George, Three abreast is a great hitch and I enjoy using it. Mostly in the winter though. In the winter I have time to move one of my forecarts tongues and leave it set for three all winter. In the summer everything is set for teams of two, so I can rake, ted, or spread; what ever the case maybe. Of course you would not have to move the tongue if you had an offset evener, but if for some reason you wanted to use a team, you would still be changing a heavy evener. If I was going to use three as my primary hitch I would prefer an offset tongue, to an off set evener. The offset tongue is the only way to keep the horses centered in front of you. There were a couple threads a year or two ago that explained the different lines vs. jockey sticks, etc. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Minks, Most horse collars go on without opening. Most all mules will have their collars opened and a lot of halflingers and fiords as well. It doesn’t really hurt a collar to open it, but it will probably last longer by not opening it.

Try and put the collar under the throat before you push it over the head. Then grasp it either side of the eyes and lift and spread it slightly as it you push it over the head. Once they get use to it most will actually push a little and make it pretty easy. Good luck

[Donn Hewes]

Neal, I think I know what you mean. “who they are”. Not as celbs, but as humans. I have learned so much from some old teamsters that you could barely get a word out of them. Their character and nature made them wonderful teamsters and people and I learned and grew through their presence in my life.

[Donn Hewes]

George, Take care of your self. That appendix really slows the logs to the landing! Donn

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