[Donn Hewes]

I have to say I have never used one. George has the most experience with them. So my opinion comes from talking to folks, looking at the equipment and just my gut feeling. I think it is a compromise set. No knives too loose but no knives set against the cutting surface the way they really should. It’s success will depend on what you want to cut. Tall stemmy grasses or grain type cover crops will always mow easy and would be easy for the easy cut. Short, wet, green, and heavy (also setting your mower to mow high) is the hardest thing to mow. This often involves mowing second cutting hay, or pasture clipping. When you challenge a mower to this extent I feel (my opinion) that good guards with good knives that are in time, with good lead, and good contact between knifes and guards, but not too much drag will make the best mower. The draw back of this plan is that it takes a lot of work (fiddling) and practice to set these machines up well enough to really perform.

[Donn Hewes]

I hate to say this but I was really confused by what you wrote. No hold downs – like an easy cut? Half out of time? I am sorry but I really don’t see what you are trying to do. Short of actually putting an easy cut system on your mower, which is not my own personnal favorite, your best option by far is to use a good knife (or new) with good guards (or new) that are properly timed and adjusted to be close without undue friction. That mower will take a little work to set up, but it will make the ultimate in horse and farmer satisfaction.

A traditional knife will not turn over and bolt on upside down and still line up with the right side up ones. At least I don’t believe they will

[Donn Hewes]

Sean, yes, make about 3,000 bales a year, pulling the baler and wagon with four. it is honest work on a hot day. Each wagon starts out easy and gets harder to pull as it gets full. If you turn up hill on the last windrow I have a tendency to not put as many bales on the wagon. Like about 80 instead of 100. it is fun work that takes two people and good horses.

My wife doesn’t even want to hear people talk about loose hay, otherwise i think I would be slowly transitioning toward that. You can see alot of hay making pictures at my web album:

[Donn Hewes]

Sean, That is a motorized baler in the video (or cart). Don’t pay attention to the title. Pulling that rig with two horses is just over loading. I have made my hay with four on the motorized forecart and it works well. Two would not pull it for very long or fill many wagons. This year I might experiment with five as the baler will move a little faster and I will fill the wagons a little fuller.

I also have seen the ground drive baler at Horse Progress Days. I liked them, but not enough to put my bales on the ground and go back and pick them up later. I will go to loose hay before I do that. Eight horses to pull the baler and the wagon.

[Donn Hewes]

Her is my two cents. Maybe only worth a penny now a days. I think you are doing the hardest part of each job if you first make loose hay and move it, and then stack it and then bale it. I believe bales have a lot to say for themselves, and if bales are what you want I truly believe you want to bale them to a wagon. Pull it with four horses if you got em. If you already have the equipment and know how to make loose hay, and the space required to store it, loose hay has a lot to say for it’s self as well. You should be able to make good loose hay anywhere you can make good baled hay. I have forked small amounts of hay into a baler, (windrow in wet end of a field but the hay was nearly dry – picked it up on a wagon and brought it to the baler the next day) and would never do it by choice.

[Donn Hewes]

Consider an old style rake or a manure spreader that you sit on. Give me a well made forecart any day. If I can keep my seat I have a better chance of dealing with what ever the animals are doing. the forecarts are the safest equipment I have.

[Donn Hewes]

As mentioned above there are advantages to many different lengths. There is also an advantage to keeping the number of different lengths down to a minimum. I typically use three. My mowers, forecarts, etc. are 36″. This is a little close for big horses in mid summer, but works well, and is quiet common. I a rake and a couple tedders that are 42″. I also have a couple eveners for two or three that are 32″ and used with out a tongue. Three horses on a two horse plow starts with a short evener like that. Jay’s description of an adjustable spreader is perfect. I have salvaged bit rings from old bits I didn’t want to use. These are light and big. In some cases the lines want even get stuck in them.

[Donn Hewes]

The neck yoke matches the evener and that is important. The D ring doesn’t change that. 44″ is a little wider than most things. Make sure you set up your lines so you are holding their heads as far apart as the neck yoke and evener. If you have other equipment with different eveners (say 36″) it can be a hassle to switch things. You might be able to use a spreader that lets the horses out for the wide evener, and working through the hames ring with out the spreaders gives you two widths with out changing the lines.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Mike, It sounded like I didn’t believe you but I do. If we spend some time getting things set right these machines work pretty good. I will have to try those hold downs one of these days.

[Donn Hewes]

Dan has all the inner and outer plates you need. Just as an example I called Dan a few days ago to ask him how to remove a wrist pin from a flywheel (the bolt the pitman slides on to). He called me back and explained it, simple. Wish I had ordered some before now I will wait for one.

I tried those twin stub guards once and they wouldn’t fit tight to the knife and were too short, didn’t cut a thing. The stub guard with the up turned knife section is the one you want. Dan has them. I prefer a different bolt with those than the rest of the guards. It is a carriage bolt.

Hi Bob, I wouldn’t run a knife that tight, plus I doubt it will loosen up with the springs on it. People do and it will mow, but it is harder on horses and parts I think. You should be able to spin the knife with one hand. 3″ of lead I don’t think it will be a problem, but I guess it could. Unusual to have too much lead. Did you measure after pulling back on the outer end?

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Bob, Those hold downs look interesting. How tight is the knife? How long is the bar? A lot of times folks turn the cone nut up side down on the guards were there is no hold down, kind of fits in the round hole a little. Those 700 guards are usually difficult to make knives fit to as they were made to fit on more than one mower and their knife height is a tiny bit different than the other guards.

If I wasn’t so busy catching up with all the other spring work I could go out and start clipping pastures already. Things are growing fast now.

Ronnie, I don’t know which of the double guards is best. All the ones they have sent me are the 218. I was looking at a 215 the other day that maintains a flat surface at the back of the knife from one guard to the next. Most of the others are slightly raised just were a ledger plate would be. The flat surface might be good as sometimes a slightly low knife section will hit back of the guard until it wears a little.

[Donn Hewes]

I am interested in the spring loaded hold down. What do they cost? Do they still allow the knife to slide freely? Goeff I will look for a number on the Double guard, but I think you can get them cheaper from Dan at Joe’s equipment repair. See dealer list.

[Donn Hewes]

I will second what Carl said. Remember our driving system of lines is based on the basic premise that we can move their head and their body will follow were ever we point the head. As a result their head will telegraph wer they are about go. I will let a horse look at some thing to its left or right for about a 1/10 of a second then gently pointing it forward. Watch some of the experienced teamsters and their eyes are glued to the animal or teams head. They will be taking in everything else going on, but still be glued to to the head of the animals they are working.

[Donn Hewes]

First off, I haven’t seen too many people get “flamed” here unless they were disrespectful to the other posters. I think you are safe so far. As for the horses, it is a tough situation. So much of what happens next depends on your ability to correctly read what they are responding to, and why.

I would suggest don’t ask who bolted and when, but when did they stop being relaxed (at least some what relaxed) and calm. A calm and relaxed animal is a good gauge of when they are ready for the next thing. Allow their heads to come up a little with each new thing, but keep them away from that edge, were they are already ready to take off. A running W or a buck back rope are hard to make effective with two horses that are equally in need of training.

In my oppion these horses will be hard to work with for some time to come and probably need at a minumum, a very experienced hand. One of the difficulties is trying to work them together. I would work them single, on the ground with a log when they can do that well (standing for hooking and unhooking, etc.) I would consider moving on. Good luck and don’t get hurt.

[Donn Hewes]

Did you check with BW Mcnair in PA. I bought those bushings from him a few years ago. They were cheap and easy to put in. Worked great.

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