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Thanks for the responses. I did pretty much what Carl suggested yesterday. I felled closer to my landing, moved slash out of my road, and worked my way back. My horses did well moving forward, but struggled with the backing and short turns. I ended up long-chaining logs so they wouldn’t have to back as far, pulling 20′ and then backing them up on the packed trail……..bulin’. I like it – perfectly describes the work. Now if I can ever get a log truck to my logs……

George

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I meant be careful you might break the jack. You should back up your jack with wedges just in case. I don’t have a clear recollection of when the jack died. It had diminishing lifting capacity until there was none at all. I have been cutting hemlock up to 26″ dbh.

George

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Tim, let us know how it goes. I killed my 12 ton jack, so be careful not to overload:eek:.

George

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I love my beta lines. I bought 3/4″ lines and they are softer and more supple than leather. I have a newish set of leather lines that I haven’t used since I got the beta. Everything else on my harness is leather.

George

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My beta lines are only 2 yo. So far so good.

George

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Like Donn, I use a liverpool on all my horses. Donn mentioned:

@Donn Hewes 24453 wrote:

Now when you need a horse to catch or tie up; act decisively, “this is what we are doing now, if you walk away from me that will be a choice that you made, but not the right one”.

When my horses walk or run away from me in pasture (which is rare), I make them understand it was the wrong choice by sending them on a run. They run the paddock at my urging until they stop and turn to face me. That is their way of saying I’m ready to make another decision. I walk up without issue or resentment, halter them and go about my business. We rotate our horses in fairly small paddocks, this wouldn’t work in a large pasture.

George

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I had a lot of luck working my horses in a round pen when I first got them. There is a lot of material out there on roundpenning (Doc Hammill, Clinton Anderson, etc.) The round pen really helps establish you as leader and sets up an effective mode of communication between you and the horse.

George

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Joshua:

My horses are all barefoot and I use my main team regularly in the woods all winter. There are very seldom conditions when I feel like they can’t pull safely. If it is icey, I don’t go out. Since I don’t make my living logging, it is no big deal if I miss a few days. My horses do some sliding, but they generally do great.

As far as a smaller horse, I was working my new 1200 lb (my guess) draft/paint in the woods with my full size draft and there were relatively few situations I felt limited by her size (pulling down hung up hemlock was one of them). I imagine 2 smaller, well conditioned, woods-broke horses could do a respectable amount of work.

George

PS the pole on my scoot is a standard ash pole about 6″ square at its base.

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Mitch:

I like the idea. Let us know how it works.

George

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John:

With the hitch point so high, the animals are working at a disadvantage. With the lower hitch, the animals are actually able to lift the load (as Carl has described so aptly in previous posts).

One advantage of this logging arch IMHO is that you get considerable lift on your log. This translates into less resistance and also a considerable pendulum effect of the chain when starting a large load. My horses noticed a big difference when starting a loaded scoot b/c they can’t get that forward momentum (even half a step) before they feel the load.

Another plus is the clearance under the arch enables you to drive over the log and other obstacles. Instead of driving past my log, geeing the horses and backing up to it, I will approach it an an angle (heading toward the log), drive one horse and wheel over the log and I am ready to hitch. Seems like a small thing, but all that geeing and hawing and backing in this deep snow tires my horses.

George

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Brad:

Congrats. It is so nice when things go well all the way through. Sounds like you are really getting the hang of the bobsled. I am off to a friends to work his team of Suffolks in the woods.

George

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Jean, I was wondering if someone would notice that. That is a new mare we purchased this fall to team with our halflinger. She is a 5 year old draft / paint cross. My other bay gelding was out with 2 abscessed feet :(and I have been working her in the woods. She is coming along nicely – learning to start a large load, pacing with her teammate, dealing with the chainsaw, etc. This size horse seems ideally suited for moderate loads over a long period of time – I imagine a good mowing horse which is the main reason we got her. However, I notice the lack of power when things are dug in.

George

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Yes Geoff, parking brake is on. There is a round bale about 15′ infront of them, but out of the picture. The brake keeps them honest. This is how I secure them in the woods while I am cutting as well.

George

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Jeremy:

My routine changes in the summer and winter and has changed as I have gained experience with my horses. We started out with horses in what sounds like a similar situation to you (i.e not a lot of folks around the area who work horses regularly). When we got our team 3 years ago, my wife Kristan and I did everything together with the horses. We did this for safety reasons and also to hone our skills as best we could given the circumstances (bouncing ideas off each other etc.). A lot of our early work was moving wood in a wagon – one person holding the lines the other loading wood. We slowly added jobs as our confidence grew (basic field work, spreading manure, light logging and finally on to haying). The short answer to our early routine was there was none. We got out together with the horses as much as we could which was difficult given the demands of the farm and we took our lumps in the process.

These days we work the horses alone. My summer routine is similar to Mac’s. In the winter, I generally take my team out after I finish chores in the morning. I alternate cutting and skidding out in the woods and bring them back for lunch. I have last year’s firewood piled tree length and I return from the woods with a load. I take off their bridles, loosen the pole strap, hay and water them while they are attached to the logging arch. After lunch, it is quick to get them going and we are back to the woods.

George

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Carl, thanks for your insights. Perhaps you misread my self-deprecating comments about the peavee and scoot as writing off these tools. It is not the tool, but the operator. I have a lot of learning to do and I am committed to learning it.

In terms of the amount of wood gotten in one day, a 1000 foot day is a great accomplishment for me. If I implied I could do better, I can’t. It was meant to give me a sense of the distance the bobsled becomes more effective than an arch. If I were not making any money logging with my horses, I would still do it b/c I enjoy it and I am not depending on the income derived from it. That said, I am interested in applying the best tool for a given working situation. Part of that equation is wood on the landing at a given distance. Part of it is also learning something new and the enjoyment of the experience. For instance, I was struck by how quiet the scoot was compared with my logging arch (chains clanking on steel).

I have been twitching firewood with a single horse for the past two days and plan on getting the scoot out tomorrow.

George

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