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Jay:

My runners are 12′ and my truck bed is 6′. I think I should be able to lash it down safely after disassembling. Providing I can it get there (should work), it’s all yours.

George

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I am planning on heading down and will bring a couple of saws and I will be happy to be a chopper if need be. I am not sure what you will have for teams and equipment, but I can bring down the scoot I built last year.

George

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Carl:

How is the spruce market down your way? I could put together a couple of loads but have been reluctant to do so as the price has been quite low last I checked.

George

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Poetry in motion……….Thanks for sharing that.

George

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Bradley:

Sounds like a great cross. Any pictures?

George

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Carl:

What you write makes perfect sense. I taught “at risk” kids in an alternative high school for 10 years before I quit to farm full time. My message to them was that you can act however you want but there will be consequences, positive and negative, as a result of your actions. When kids “acted out” and received consequences, my question to them once they were in a calmer state was “did that get you what you want?” Some of them would get to the point where they would want to acquire new skills to deal with situations in different ways. When they saw positive outcomes as a result of these actions (even small ones), they were willing to take more steps forward. The initiative to do so was theirs. By giving them the choice in how they acted, it empowered them. I was there to help them get these skills and respond to their actions with 100%, unwavering consistency. I believe that this gave us a partnership of sorts, not equal by any means, but a partnership nonetheless.

I think my approach to horses is very similar. These are my expectations, follow them and your present situation will be easier. Choose not to and I will make things uncomfortable. Pressure, release, pressure, release. When an agitated horse is hitched to a log and I make them stand, I believe this creates uncomfortable pressure on the horse. Once I get the desired response, I remove the pressure and off way. I don’t think the horse ever forgets I am back there responding to his actions.

George

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I have only introduced new horses on 2 occasions. Instead of a box stall, I had them out in a paddock for a couple of days separated by polywire. I think the box stall will serve the same purpose. After a few days, I put them all together in a large roundish paddock, no corner where the new horse can get trapped. Once introduced, they go at it and figure out the pecking order pretty quickly. No one has been hurt yet. What did you buy?

George

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Lots of good thoughts and words here. Carl, as always, I appreciate your considered response and agree with most everything you write. Our first team of horses were “amish broke” mares. Kristan and I were way out of our league with these horses. Our logging ventures looked like a pulling contest at the fair – her on the evener, me trying to back and keep the horses still so that she could hook on to the log. Once hooked, off we went. This was not fun and certainly was not safe. After 3 moths of hitching these horses regularly, we concluded that we did not have the skills to safely work them.

Among other promises to myself, I vowed I would never log with horses that would not stand. Our current team had never worked in the woods. In preparation to start logging, I would hitch them and walk through the woods. Every twig breaking and all the new sounds and stimuli made them nervous. When they were comfortable on our walks, I dragged items (tires etc.) Finally I felt I could down a tree and give it a try. We would back to that tree and I would chain it up and correct them when they moved. It took a day or two before they would stand and I finally hitched to the log and pulled b/c they finally stood. Slowly, slowly we progressed. They eventually got used to the logging environment. What used to concern them no longer does. Pulling brush out from under their legs, pitching a chain on a log close to their heads, bucking logs in back of them with a chainsaw, untwisting a chain/single tree from around a leg – all routine. Amazing!

Long story short, I completely agree that I do not hook a horse that is moving around. The day that Jim was “off”, he would take a step here or there or simply move a foot. Every infraction was responded to and it took 4 hours to 2 hours worth of work. Lots of standing around. By some miracle (and I gather this is common), my horses know when they are actually hooked to a log. I know this, not b/c they try to go, but by the way they present themselves. I have tried to fake them out to no effect. At any rate, I would hook Jim and sit and have a water break on the stump. He would stand, pent up and ready. When I could see his attentiveness dwindle, we would go (with fair warning, of course).

Where I disagree Carl, is on the desensitizing. I haven’t felt the need to do it in a long while, and haven’t done it with my other horses in years, but this horse is a different story. He is hyper-alert by nature with a strong flee response. By familiarizing him with various stimuli, I believe it makes him not “numb” (thank you Scott, I totally agree), but more accepting and confident.

Much of the problem with that day lies with me and the discomfort I felt being in public. Jim picked up on it. I also failed to judge what I thought he could/should accept regarding the chaps and how fast he accept them on his back. These factors almost led to a runaway.

My safe working relationship with my horses rests largely, not on my belief, but on my absolute certitude that we can accomplish a task in a safe, productive way. This is not something that is faked (I have tried), but is truth and horses respond to it. That certitude was competing with other factors that day and I almost paid for it. Hopefully next time I will recognize this and pack it in to try another day.

George

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Mitch and Don,

thanks for your responses. What I didn’t mention in my previous post was the effect the new environment had on me – cars honking in approval, folks stopping to watch, etc. I’m not used to being on display as most of the work I do with my horses is in near solitude. Clearly we were both off our game as a result of this change in work environment and the chaps out of nowhere was the proverbial straw.

I spent 20 minutes or so with Jim in our “roundish” pen yesterday – really just polywire around the horses’ run-in shed. I tied cans together, gathered a roll of black plastic water line, tarps etc and spent some time with him on these items. He accepted them with eyes wide open, but stoically. Then we headed back to the roadside pasture to finish up. Jim was relaxed and did great even as we pulled unlimbed trees to the burn pile crashing through the brush and other debris. Chaps, saw, helmet on and off the hames with no issues.

Burning brush today then back to the woods to put a load of hemlock together. How about this weather?!

George

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Daniel,

Just curious, how big are your ponies and how long a bar are you running on your #9?

George

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Hey Mitch,

I have never been to a big horse auction. You mentioned they have a day for selling crosses. How common are Belg/Perch crosses at those auctions? I am not in the market, just curious. I have a pair of bays that I really like and I am a big fan of hybrid vigor. Also, is it common to see stout, farm-style horses or do the taller, lankier horses predominate?

George

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Thanks for the responses. The cell phone will be a good addition. All the logging I do is in my own woods. I let Kristan know where I am headed and when I hope to be back. However, things don’t always go as planned and I am often delayed, so I will be able call and update if necessary.

Jim can you elaborate on what else you have in your first aid kit?

@Jim Ostergard 30031 wrote:

George,
I have a pretty extensive first aid kit that has more stuff in it than the loggers kit from Bailey’s or Labonville. Recommended to carry at least 4 triangle bandages and an epi-pen in case of reaction to bee stings.
Jim O

George

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Carl:

Brilliant, I will give it a try. Out of curiosity, was this something you figured out or was it acquired?

George

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Thanks for the responses. I have a steel head for a stone boat along with some 6/4 ash. Perhaps I should move that project forward on the “to do” list. In the meantime I will try to make do hanging stuff off the hames. I especially like Carl’s I idea of tucking the saw under the front trace. I currently hang a pack (with wedges, 6 lb hammer, water, first aid etc), pulp hook and 20′ chain off the hames but couldn’t figure out a good way to carry my saw. It will be quite a site with me atop my horse heading out to the woods with all the gear.

George

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We have had over 35 intern/apprentices on our farm during our first 10 years. With few exceptions, these were very positive experiences. They helped up with a labor deficit and we provided a well rounded experience in goat dairying and cheesemaking. Three couples have gone on to start their own goat farms and many of the folks who have come through here are now great friends. One key to making it work was very clear expectations, in writing, that outline our mutual responsibilities (interns and ours) along with regular meetings etc.

Three years ago we opted to forgo our intern program and have gone to one full-time employee. The reason we gave up this “free” labor (we provided room and board with no stipend), is that it is extremely time consuming to train new people every 3-6 months. I was very reluctant at first to go with an employee, but Kristan really pushed for it. Training aside, it is also taxing to manage folks on a day to day basis. We were committed to working with and training our interns and not sending them off alone to do menial labor. Working with and training someone on a daily basis takes time and and effort. Ultimately the shift to an employee made our farm more profitable and really improved our quality of life.

Despite the shift we made, having interns was extremely positive. If you are short on labor and have any desire/aptitude in teaching/training, I highly recommend it.

George

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