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Here’s my original post with scoot plans and pictures: http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?3774-New-Scoot The plans are based on Les’s 10′ scoot and were drawn up my Marc Cowdrey. I beefed up the bunks to 4″ thick and made a 12′ scoot. I used 5/16″ chain to attach my evener and used it for the pole chain between my bunks. My evener is adjustable and I plan on adding some extra chain for my pole per Carl’s recommendation.

Jean, sorry for the unintelligible lingo. ID=inside diameter. The “round stock” and its dimensions refer to the steel the ring is made of.

Mitch, I like the countersinking idea. My pins protrude a bit above my bunks. So far so good, but I might cut them down if they start bugging me. Also, I am interested in hearing more about scoots made of spruce or other softwood (you posted earlier on this). My ash sled is rugged, but heavy. Do you prefer softwood or hardwood scoots?

George

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If Ed can’t make them, any machine/welding shop should be able to. The ring between the chains is 5″ ID made from 3/4 round stock. The one under the bunk is 4″ ID made of 1/2″ round stock. They do not need to be dead nuts, just roundish will do.

George

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@Carl Russell 30821 wrote:

George, I’ve had luck with long loads by attaching a ratchet strap to the end of the runners and back up to the sidewalls of the truck bed….. gives a little lift….

If you get here by 6am Saturday:eek:, we could probably slide them into my trailer between my critters .

Also, I think we can cut a pole from a sapling on the job….. I’ll have neck-yoke and doubletree.

Carl

Carl, I should be all set. Looking forward to it.

George

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My neighbor with the trailer is in Florida so that is a no-go for transporting the scoot. I will make it work with my small truck and drive slowly but will not be able to fit my pole. Does anyone have a scoot pole they can bring along? My front ring which is chained between the runners is 5″ ID and my back ring, fixed under the bunk, is 4″ ID. I will also need a neck yoke as all my yokes are plug yokes and don’t fit standard pole set-ups. Also, I am not planning on bringing my double tree figuring that whoever is driving the scoot will have their own to use. If that is not the case, let me know and I will bring mine.

George

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I am with Carl on this. I rarely step over a moving log. Stop, step over, go. When I am twitching wood in tight terrain, I stop frequently. I was helping a friend get started in the woods with his team last year. The most important advice I imparted was to stop his team more frequently. I think it is easy to get caught up in the moment, adrenaline surging, and forget to stop.

John, there have been a lot of comments on your horse and how calm he is. I’d like to throw out there that although horse personality and temperament influence the working relationship, a lot of that relationship has to do with the teamster. Even though your horse might have a calm demeanor, I bet he could be made a nervous wreck in the wrong hands. Clearly he trusts and feels comfortable with your leadership and I would like to compliment your efforts to that end.

George

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@Carl Russell 30789 wrote:

George, I think from description by Brad that the working area will be more ideal for a scoot than a bobsled. I am bringing my bobsled, but it would be great to have a scoot there for me to hitch into……

Carl

OK. I will see about rounding up a trailer. I’ll keep you posted.

George

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Scott:

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing that. Where do you get your slings to wrap around trees? What do you recommend? What is a whoopie sling?

George

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Almost a year later…..and I finally sprung for a snatch block / synthetic rope system. I logged with a 4WD tractor and winch for a number of years before I got horses. The only time I use the tractor/winch is to pull down trees my horses can’t get a hold of. I hung up a big hemlock (around 900 ft of logs in it), right in the ground. Horses couldn’t budge it and I decided to invest. Here’s what I got:http://www.ebay.com/itm/400241777494?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2242wt_952http://www.ebay.com/itm/400246549301?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2769wt_952

This is 5/16 rope with a minimum strength of 12,000 lbs. Snatch block is rated for 20k. I tried using a figure 8 to tie to my double tree and it bound so tight it took me 20 minutes to get it undone. I also tried a bowline on a bite with the same result. I took Iron Roses idea of a “bull hook” and ran with it. I works great. A couple of wraps, hook into my single/double tree and pull. Unwrap and I’m done. I think the aforementioned knots might work ok with larger rope, but not with this smaller diameter synthetic stuff. Here are some pics practicing on a smaller hemlock that is mildly hung up. In the “bull hook” picture, my finger is where I hook to my swivel/single tree. Some of you might be thinking this is one more thing to carry and get lost in the woods – I hear you, but when you need it, you really need it. The rope is so light I carry it on my hames and clip the bull hook on with a carabiner. I also serves as a great chain extender. Total investment – $130.
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qk0o8USISpk/Ttkb3ElqroI/AAAAAAAABEE/En8ir1d_lLs/s800/P1030496.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XrzxzAUmre0/TtkbsijPF5I/AAAAAAAABD8/KSqDEJLiB5E/s512/P1030494.JPG[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-j3z4DYj5_EE/TtkbyD6QnkI/AAAAAAAABEA/BynRy5vugkM/s512/P1030495.JPG[/IMG]

George

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Bradley, Jean, and others:

I took apart the scoot to see how it sits in the back of my small pick-up for the ride down. On a short trip it would be fine, but it seems marginally safe for an 8 hour drive as much of the weight is hanging over my 6′ bed. I can look into borrowing a trailer, but wanted to know if the scoot is really needed. Is there going to be a scoot on site? I volunteered b/c I thought it would be great to see a scoot in use as one is being built. Let me know and I will try to arrange something if necessary.

George

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@Hopewell Farm 30694 wrote:

Please feel free to make suggestions, as I said we are both very green.

[video=youtube_share;UnAxAqjpG3I]http://youtu.be/UnAxAqjpG3I[/video]

John, you and your horse look great. I’ll throw the following out as a comment about what works for me rather than a suggestion and perhaps others can chime on what they do: I am a big believer in buckling my lines together (or tying if you don’t have a buckle). I think this is especially important while ground skidding. I generally walk close to my horse and let the lines slip through my hands when I need to stop or slow down if it isn’t a good place for the horse to stop or slow. I might only have 10′ of lines to let out, but that can make a difference in the comfort and effectiveness of the horse. There have been several times where the terrain was especially challenging that I spooled out line only to be saved by the buckle. If my lines hadn’t been buckled I would have lost them.

As an aside, all my lines are 3/4″ beta (a tip from this site) with male ends (in other words, no buckle). I had several double-buckles made up that I use to buckle the lines together. The advantage of this is that I can I can slip cross-checks off and on to make single, double, or three abreast lines. All my lines are color-coordinated (another tip from this site) – left lines are brown and all right lines are black.

George

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I mow some fairly steep ground on my Vermont hill farm. I suggest starting on less steep sections and progressing as you feel comfortable. It is surprising how comfortable I feel with horses on a mower compared to a tractor.

George

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@ShireLover 30633 wrote:

A somewhat related question. What kind of chain do you use? Length, size, what’s on the ends?

Thanks,
Eric

Eric, here is an assortment of chains I use in the woods.[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rj55Aux6_Ts/Ttkb6IXynyI/AAAAAAAABEI/ut9EnbWgHC0/s800/P1030522.JPG[/IMG]

The chain on the upper right is what I use to hook to logs. It is 5/16″ x 10′ with a slip hook on one end and a 3/8 needle on the other. The needle is round stock bent with a torch. When I am logging single, I use one of these chains and and carry the synthetic winch cable (covered below) on one of the hames. When I am logging with 2 horses and an arch, I carry two of these chains. I also carry a 5/16″ x 20′ chain with a grab on both ends (middle of picture). This chain is used as an extender to grab marginally accessible logs. I attach the choker chain to the log, then attach the long chain to the choker chain which grabs just below the needle, and then to the arch or double-tree. I can also add my second choker chain in there for a reach of 40′. This is often useful if logs are in a very wet areas or on steep ledge ground. The blue rope is 7/16″ synthetic winch cable with a bull hook in the middle (see picture below). This, in conjunction with a pulley, is used to pull down trees that are hung-up. I have also been using this light rope to serve the purpose of the 20′ chain I described above. I have a grab on one end and use the bull hook to attach to the single/double tree. I also carry a short section of 5/16′ chain with two grab hooks on it. When I have 2 logs chained that I can’t quite reach with the logging arch, I will attach this double grab to each log and then hook it to my longer double-grab chain to pull both at the same time. Clear as mud?

Good luck.

George

[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qk0o8USISpk/Ttkb3ElqroI/AAAAAAAABEE/En8ir1d_lLs/s800/P1030496.JPG[/IMG]

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Here’s my debut as cinematographer. I attached my digital camera to my baseball cap to try to give the teamster’s perspective on the ground. The result is bouncy and the viewpoint is a little off as I can’t see where the camera is pointing. My daughter says I sound like an obese Darth Vader. Lots of family laughs at my expense

This ash was pulled off some steep, ledge ground. I twitched the logs to a drop-of and, thanks to gravity rolled them down with just a pulp hook (thank you Carl for the tip). I then re-hitched and pulled to the landing. There is a section in the video that is also fairly steep, but the camera’s perspective doesn’t show it.

George

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=H8VI98UCdIo

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I sell hemlock to a local mill that is paying $275 / mbf straight through with a premium ($315) for 18′< logs with 16"< diameter. Log length firewood runs between $70 and $80 / chord on the landing. George

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Jay:

When I bought my land it was owner-financed for the reasons you outlined – banks don’t like to loan $ for land. Have you discussed this possibility with the owner? A couple of years ago we bought some additional acreage and got a loan through the Farm Service Agency. The catch there is that they want you to be farming commercially for at least 3 (maybe 5?) years with some solid numbers behind your farm/business. Other than that, you can try agriculturally-focused banks like Yankee Farm Credit. They are used to dealing with farmers, but their interest rates tend to be high.

Good luck.

George

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