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For firewood, I generally cut 16′-20′ for my first set of logs that ride on the bunk. The top tier is more flexible because you have a nice bed of logs for support – generally an 8′ minimum. Similar idea for saw logs – I will generally put 16s,18s, and 20s on the bottom tier or combine two logs up to 24′ (2 twelve footers, for example). The top tier tends to be smaller diameter logs which I generally double up and buck once I get to my landing.

George

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@mink 39152 wrote:

george i was wondering about going in empty, maybe you sit in the space next to your saw? i see carl in his videos standing on top the logs going out but never see anybody going in the woods.

I ride with one foot on the back side of the runner and one foot on the bunk, lines in one hand with the other holding on to the peavey for balance.

George

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@Carl Russell 39138 wrote:

I wanted to see that load pull away.

Carl

Kind of anticlimactic huh? I found the camera more challenging the the parbuckle! The horses drew that load well. It was mostly a downhill pull along with some gentle up and down slopes. I have a fairly, long steep hill leading up to my firewood landing and I ended up blocking off 1/4 of the load at the bottom of the hill.

Mink, I generally start the load while I am on the ground. I then check my chains for tightness, re-adjust if necessary, and then ride atop the load – a great ride.

George

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I am not directly familiar with the cart but came across this a few weeks ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvHLr6imvzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPQk65Dnz_0

George

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No. This is me: https://post.craigslist.org/k/UPkUPvNZ4hGGUtRY41xQFw/HFwQN?s=preview.

However, I have had no takers after having had this up for a few months. I am not interested in selling split wood. I block and split 20-25 cords/year and am not interested in handling more wood than that. I can get $70/cord of log length wood at the landing. That yields me slightly more than half of what I get for a straight truck of hemlock and is a tough nut to swallow. I can understand if it is byproduct of hardwood saw logs, but selling firewood alone is tough. However, I think I am going to have to go that route as I have more fuel wood to remove than I can use. I will write it off (in my mind) as woodlot improvement and take what I can get. Do you sell firewood? What about on logging jobs?

George

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Well the sharpened points on the slip hooks worked well. If you find it easier to weave your second, or near set of logs, as you go compared with having to snake chain after the fact, it might be worth a try. I drove the hook into the wood both a hammer and a peavey and it held fine for my purposes. Carl, if you come up with an easier chaining method I would love to hear about it. Chaining time is the biggest drawback I can find to using a sled. Although I am getting more proficient, a faster method that would adequately secure logs would be welcome. However, I am not sure a lighter sled would be desirable in my situation. The real benefit of the bobsled fr me is its payload. I loaded up a cord of wood + / – today and went just over half a mile (thanks to Google Earth I can now dial in my skid distance accurately). Although I will often “go light and go often” while ground skidding and using my arch, I tend to load as much on my scoot and sled as I think the horses can draw. When I am drawing fuel wood, I have a pretty substantial hill leading up to the house (in contrast, my sawlog landings are mostly downhill). I will often block off a quarter or more of the load at the bottom of the hill so they can make it up.

I have a friend who logged with horses for 20+ years using a bobsled and travois sled (sp?). He used a swivel bunk on his bobsled with 2 rings on the outside of the bunk. The bunk was also equipped with small spikes to keep the logs from sliding off the bunk. He wrapped one chain from one ring to another around the load and used a binder. He didn’t even use a back chain. Hard to believe he kept all his logs, but he swears by it.

Mitch, although I like working alone, I also enjoy the company of others. I have been trading a day a week with a friend who logs with horses and have been enjoying it. I also agree about the importance of involving our kids. My son put up a bit of a fuss before going out the other day. I insisted he come out and he really enjoyed it. He also got to save his dad! We need to take the time to share our work and passions with our kids, even though it takes time.

George

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Thanks all for your kind words. If my son had not been there, I would like to think that my horses would stand around for a few hours until Kristan came looking for me, but you never know.

Carl, working alone is both a reality and a solace for me as well. Before I became a farmer and father, I was an avid rock climber. The technical and physical challenges gave me a charge like no other. Working horses in the woods fills that void and then some. There is so much we ask of our logging horses (and ourselves) that the opportunities for learning and gratification are limitless. Along with that comes both frustration and potential danger. By working slowly and methodically, I try to limit both.

In terms of the chaining, I normally do lay my first chain around the bunk before I load my first set of logs. However, recently I have found that the chain is getting trapped under my log as I try to shuck it over and moves from the center of the bunk toward the outside and under the log necessitating and extraction. I think this could be avoided by using the peavey to roll the log rather than pry and shuck but that is not what always is needed. Than I started questioning if there really is an advantage to laying out that first chain. Why not get your first set of logs in place, wrap around your bunk and weave?

Yesterday I took a grinder to both my slip hooks in order to make a sharp point that can be driven into a log. I am going to try driving that slip on the outer most log (my first on the bunk) and weaving as I go from the outside in. With the near set of logs, I would continue to weave as I go from the outside, in.

I know, the young upstart trying to re-invent the wheel. If nothing else, it might help prevent that slip hook from falling between the last two logs (a common occurrence with me) as I weave my other chain per your tried and true method. I’ll let you know how it goes.

George

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With an odd number of logs, I pass the slip hook under and over the bunk.
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TO2PnxBFTxo/UOihPsXh-2I/AAAAAAAABmw/al_tTSYSI3s/s912/P1040154.JPG[/IMG]

……Over the first log and so on.
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-InVSsCop35w/UOihRHqAVXI/AAAAAAAABnA/Mq3iU0c2ZVs/s912/P1040156.JPG[/IMG]

Finishing up with the grab hook side of my chain.
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_MsLSDn3zdw/UOiha7p5DMI/AAAAAAAABnI/8jirYsRLsJM/s912/P1040157.JPG[/IMG]

Does this “rule” (i.e. how to start with the slip hook on the bunk) make sense? Does my twist seem correct? I think on this same thread you wrote to think of the bunk as another log and what I am doing here (I think) seem to be consistent with that.

George

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@Carl Russell 32833 wrote:

The trick to twisting the chains around each other is pretty straight forward. First of all I ALWAYS have the grab-hook end of my chains coming up in front of the bunk, and the slip-hook end coming up behind the bunk. You want to end up with the slip-hook end hanging downward over the outside log, and the grab-hook end coming up under that outside log. To achieve that, the ends have to go over, or under, the first log (just off-center of the bunk) in accordance to how you expect them to end up on the outside log.

Carl

The good news is that I have yet to lose a load. The bad news is that chaining my load is not as seamless as I would like it to be. What takes some time for me is the set up of the chain around the bunk before I start weaving. Like the pattern of the weave (over and under for 1 and 3 logs, the opposite for even logs), I would like to create a rule (for myself) on how to start the chain around the bunk. Here’s what I came up with:
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TirglSnFh4M/UOigv8M06_I/AAAAAAAABmY/lQ8AkzM8geA/s912/P1040152.JPG[/IMG]

I then continue under and over my logs and weave with my grab end toward the inside of the bunk and take the slack out.
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c7ThEbXsLvc/UOigwasigVI/AAAAAAAABmg/yKqQL1fDsOw/s912/P1040153.JPG[/IMG]

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We feed no grain to our animals. I am not a commercial logger, but I have my horses out 4 days a week logging in the winter with consistent farm work (manure spreading, haying, etc) the rest of the year. My wife took an on-line course on horse nutrition based on the NRC guidelines. Every year we test our hay and she balances the ration accordingly. She has been able to balance the ration on hay alone under the guideline of “moderate” work (other guidelines are maintenance, light work, and heavy work) using hay alone. We have to supplement with second cut hay to meet protein requirements and feed a little less than a pound / horse of soaked beet pulp as a vehicle for feeding a custom mineral mix (beet pulp is also a good source of fermentable fiber).

I mostly log alone and am only pulling 6 to 700 feet on average day, sometimes more if things are going smoothly. If I had someone cutting ahead of me, we would likely bump up to the guideline of “heavy” work. We do have periods of heavy work when we are spreading manure and haying, but they are intermittent and followed by periods of lighter work. Our horses are in excellent condition and have plenty of “go”.

George

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Great video, thank you. I really enjoyed the community aspect of it. I mainly work in the woods by myself but have recently been trading a day a week with a friend who bought a team. Working with others (horses included) builds a bond like no other.

It looked to me like the main team had no britchens (the single did). Did I see that correctly? If so, are they just relying on bridle chains for holding back the load. Also, they have a quick shot of where the single trees are attached to the main evener. It looked to be a ring with a sort of “T” inserted – I assume a sort of quick release. Charly, do you have any other info or pictures on this system? Looks like it would sure beat trying to unscrew a frozen clevis when you want to split of a single while logging.

Thanks again.

George

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Carl:

That is a beautiful piece of writing – I remember it from your SFJ article on the bobsled. It really brings to light the poetry and allure of using this great tool.

I ended up letting in my “binder” pockets as my bunk is already 5′ and I didn’t want to make it wider. Here are some pics:
[IMG]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Kqcbd3TLh2s/UOFrsLqXUCI/AAAAAAAABl0/f9WbzfP6Ono/s1152/P1040144.JPG[/IMG]

[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yeedIY8_9bo/UOFrscTnKiI/AAAAAAAABl4/2WNXYiQWXrQ/s1152/P1040145.JPG[/IMG]

George

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@Carl Russell 38584 wrote:

1……or even chaining that outer log back to the sled until you’re ready to chain it on.

2. And chain them tight, and check the load often, as frozen logs can make for interesting sledding.

Carl

1. I ended up doing just that after losing my second log. I think some stake pockets are in order. Do you know off hand how long your bunk is with and without stake pockets?

2. So far so good with sledding frozen logs. My two bunk chains generally stay pretty tight, but my top chain will often need a tighten or two. I did lose a load on my scoot last week when I stepped the horses forward a few feet to retrieve the top load of logs. I didn’t think I needed to bind the bottom load as it was flat ground but the whole load just slipped back and off my front bunk.:eek:

I really enjoy riding the bobsled with a load of logs and watching the sled pivot under the logs. Loading troubles aside, it is a great tool.

George

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Hi Carl:

Thanks for the reply. I will stick with 42″. What is the function of the welded eye pictured in back of your single tree on the main evener?

George

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Back to my original question….Are we talking ground driven or motorized mowers here? The answer, to me, would make all the difference regarding what one horse could comfortably pull (or two for that matter). Hobnob, you mentioned a ground drive mower in your original post. Do I and J even make a ground driven mower? I have seen their mowers, usually powered by a motor, being used on their ground drive PTO cart, but I am not aware if they have a stand alone ground driven mower.

George

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