[Andy Carson]

Wow! This is really coming together nicely. Is the window to see behind you? Are you going to put on rear view mirrors? Brakes? Are you planning on only stopping at places where you can tie the horses? Somehow I imagine people who see you might want to buy things then and there… Do you plan on setting up a small display table when you get to the location? Are you going to put a logo or farm info on the side of the wagon?

[Andy Carson]

@Tim Harrigan 18534 wrote:

That’s a good idea. I have one field though where is is uphill on all 4 sides.

If I had a field that was uphill on all four sides I would start in the middle and go downhill the whole way!!!

[Andy Carson]

Welcome Denise
I think you will find this forum to be a wonderful source of practical information. I would like to second Eriks suggestion of an apprenticeship. It would be very useful both the learn farming and animal techniques and to learn what appeals to you. If you don’t have time for one, I think it would be a good idea to visit some farms that you might be interested in emulating. Of course you will want to put your own twist on thier model, but these visits will give you an idea of what is possible and some idea of how to get there. If you are interested in a tractor powered farm, I would suggest going to visit one of these as well. Obviously, I lean towards animal power, but when planning a direction, I think it is important to look at all options. After you decide on a goal, try to come up with small incremental steps to help you get there. It will take several years, no matter which way you decide to go, so it might be helpful to set up smaller goals along the way so as not to get discouraged. Try to keep in mind that if you work with animals the learning itself is often fun and you might spend all day looking forward to your “learning” sessions. Personally, I have never been motivated by machines in the same way and your desire to go to work is an important consideration. If you decide to go with horses, I would recommend getting an older horse (or team) that knows its (thier) job well. I would still recommend a human mentor to help you get started, but experienced animals are safer and can teach you as well. If you have cattle experience (or even if you don’t) oxen seem like a good choice too. I think your choice of animal depends to a great extent on what captures your imagination and you enjoy working with.

[Andy Carson]

A trick I’ve used before combine driving… Sometimes it is helpful to lay out a cut such that most of the cut is a mild easy downhill (say three sides of a square). The fourth side would be a steeper uphill to get back to the start, so you don’t cut at all going uphill. With the horses, it might be easiest to even shut off the mechanism. When you come back to the top of the hill, you go back into the cut for the other three sides. This works pretty well, but leaves you with some stange shapes on the edges of the field that have to be cleaned up later, but if you are clever in how you lay out the field they are often small. Just ideas…

[Andy Carson]

I read an interesting article about draft horse conformation a while ago, and found the reference again. The authors were looking at particular conformational traits in Ba’nei draft horses (Japanese draft race horses) and linking them to the likelyhood that these particular horses would win races. I found it fascinating.

Relationships among Body Size, Conformation, and Racing Performance in Banei Draft Racehorses. Journal of Equine Science Vol. 12 (2001) , No. 1 pp1-7

To make a long story short, overall weight was the most important single characteristic that determined performance in these races. This was not particularly suprizing to me. Beyond overall weight, the most proportionally built horses tended to do the best. It was interesting to me that some features (such as cannon bone diameter, girth, body length, chest depth, etc) did not benefit these horses UNLESS everything else on the horse was built to match. I think this speaks to the importance of symmetry and balance in a heavy horse rather than breeding or selecting for specific individual traits (at the expense of others).

[Andy Carson]

What a trip! Are the Nordell’s coming to NEAPFD? I imagine it’s hard for them to break away, but I would love to meet them in person. I have been very inspired by thier farming techniques.

[Andy Carson]

Given all this it is probably most practical to either reduce the bar size or increase the number or size of animals if the work is challenging. Probably kinda obvious, but there doesn’t seem to be any “easy tricks” here… Fun to think about modifications though…

[Andy Carson]

Hmmm… Interesting points. Although there might be some advantages to not having the knives fully loaded before cutting, I would think this might put undue stress and wear on the tips of the knives instead of distributing the wear across the entire knife surface. One could prevent that by using a different shape/size of knife, but that seems like alot of trouble. Actually, now that I’m thinking about it more, I’m not sure what would be gained by wheel/knife speed mods over simply taking a smaller swath when the going gets tough. Also, this practice requires no modifications. What about taking a “half swath” on uphills and in thick material and “full swath” on downhills or in thin spots? Is this the standard practice already?

[Andy Carson]

Very interesting thread. With the already substantial mechanical losses, it seems paramount that additional mechanical loses be kept to a minimum. I am curious how much draft improper bar adjustment, improper lubrication, dull blades, etc, would add. I suspect these effects could be huge. Beyond that, I am very curious about replacing the larger 32 inch steel wheels with pneumatic wheels of smaller diameter (maybe 24 inch). As Tim mentioned, the use of a pneumatic wheel might reduce the draft by 50 lbs (or 13% on a 400 lb draft) which helps by itself. The smaller diameter though, would allow for the same blade speed to be maintained at 2.25 MPH rather than 3 MPH (24/32*3MPH). This would reduce the HP required from 3.2 HP to 2.1 HP (taking into account both the draft and speed reduction), which seems very helpful. You could do the same thing by adjusting the internal gear ratios, but that seems like it would be hard and expensive. You would cut less hay per hour this way due to the slower speed, but the reduced load might allow you to cut for a longer time… I am curious why mowers were designed to work at such a fast speed on the part of the horse… Maybe I’m missing something…

[Andy Carson]

We all have our own styles. This kind of cart appeals to me. I was hoping for something built tough enough I could use it in the field, but wouldn’t be “too ugly” for deliveries. I was thinking that if I had a strong frame, wheels, axle, etc, I might be able to simply swap out a “field bed” for a “fancy bed.” That’s why I am so curious about these parts.

[Andy Carson]

I have worked at night quite a bit. I used two battery powered lanterns aimed at the areas of interest. The one thing to watch out at the beginning is that on turns, my horse sometimes thought the “light creature” was racing towards her from the side and back. She got used to it fast though, and after a couple times out it was not big deal. By the way, the light is for you, the horse can see everything just fine on even the darkest nights.

[Andy Carson]

It was great to meet you, Carl, and best of luck testing the buffer! I checked into my fall schedule and thought a little more and have definitely decided to come to NEAPFD. I should see you there again and hopefully meet others who I have only “virtually” met.

[Andy Carson]

Hmmm… That’s a good point about the wheel, bed, and shaft height. I agree a cart would look much better (and probably be move functional) with taller wheels. Taller wheels would definately look better if they were wooden… That would probably require a different axle and probably different springs as well. So yeah, probably better from scratch. By the way, do you have a good source for the wagon parts (wheels, axles, springs, etc)? Maybe they have a website to share?

[Andy Carson]

Looks great! I am curious what you learned about springs and wheels. I think you are using wooden wheels, right? This is in keeping with the overall design of the wagon, are there other advantages to this type of wheel? I have been toying with the idea of building a smaller two wheeled delivery cart if your delivery experience seems positive. I was basically going to rob the wheels, axle, and suspension from a small utility trailer and sit in on a nicely constructed and decorated box. Does this type of design jive with what you have learned about wheels and suspension?

[Andy Carson]

Maybe I’ve just had inefficient horses, but I like to think they have been hard workers. At any rate, I’ve always had to grain at least some, and lately alot. I agree that it is essential to monitor the horses condition and adjust grain intake to condition. Someone told me that the best “person” to tell you how much to feed your horse is your horse. I have found this to be good advice. Personally, I like to be able to feel ribs, but not see them. Well, maybe the last one of two on a sunny day… To my experience, how much you can grain a horse depends alot on thier underlying physical condition. When my horse was new and out of shape, she would get fat if I fed her more than about 4 lb a day, even though I started to work her right away. Her increased feed corresponded to her increased workload as she slowly gained condition and strength. It took a full year of consistent exhausting work to get up to 12-15 lbs a day without getting fat. Given this, I am not sure this is amount of food is really strange. The story of Michael Phelps and his 12000 calories a day diet comes to mind. That amount of food would certainly make most people (including me) very fat… I have also found that it is helpful to keep track of her energy level and her muscle tone. For mine, the type of feed makes a big difference in her energy level. Carbs tend to make her hot in the first half hour, and fat gives slow energy over longer periods of time. I try to give as much fat as she’ll eat, but I have often run into palatability issues.

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