[Andy Carson]

I am attempting to do minimum tillage on a small scale with animal power. I have had successes and failures with it so far. Dealing with crop trash is a challange. By my estimation, most old-time animal powered implements work best either following a plow or when there is little residue for some other reason (such as following a crop that degrades fast). For me, this has meant alot of tools and techniques had to be invented or adapted to some extent. This is kinda fun, but the learning curve is steep this way. I do think that the min-till system I have used has been really good for growing cover crops. The growth of my cover crops was more vigorous than my neighbors fall planted grain (planted at the same time), despite him using a drill and my using a broadcast spreader. I like to think that the residue left on the top of my soil helped to retain moisture and nutrients and this helped the cover crops. But really, there are too many variables to know for sure. Overall, I think this technique has alot of potential and I will be interested to see how it pans out with a variety of crops this year. As an asside, I think if one was willing to use herbicides that tractor based system no-till system would be easier to follow. I have personally never been interested in this path though… There is alot of good information out there about no till and min till. I do think min-till is more adaptable to organic animal based production than no-till, but I am certainly not an expert.

[Andy Carson]

Robert, I got my eggs from David Puthoff at buckeyechickens.com. He is a nice guy and sent me 42 eggs when I only paid for 32. The downside was that nearly half the eggs candled clear at 2 weeks. I had a blood ring on two additional eggs, and 12 of the remaining eggs have hatched. Today is day 21, so I hope there might be a few more. Still, not great for starting with 40 eggs. I have to say that this is the first time I have hatched eggs myself, so can’t really exclude the possibility of some type of “user error” that I am not aware of. You will have to take this info for what it’s worth.

[Andy Carson]

I ended up deciding on Buckeye chickens. They started hatching today. Very cute… Just thought I would share.

[Andy Carson]

I am pretty new at this too Murray, so can only honestly share what I have learned thus far. I have only successfully grown cover crops on my plots so far, but have really learned alot of lessons doing it. I was lucky (and unlucky) in that the 5 acres I split into plots had corn growing in it the year before. Lucky because it had already been broke in. Unlucky because it was full of corn trash that plaqued everything I tried to do for a while. If the land was all sod, I think I might have hired a local tractor to plow it once for me to get things started. I know it’s kinda a cop-out, but plowing up sod is hard and slow, especially with a single. Besides, once it’s plowed once, I have had good luck keeping the weeds down with a disc. You could probably do something similar if you are interested. Alot of small farmers (at least around here) often end up with “toys” they like to “play with.” I have a neighbor who keeps asking me if I need any tractor work done, perhaps you do too. I have been afraid of actually buying a tractor b/c I think it will become the “easy answer” to all the things I would rather be doing with my horse. Hiring out (although I have never done it) might be a good way to force yourself to learn, while also being able to accomplish some challenging tasks (like breaking in 23 acres of sod) from time to time. Again, just friendly thoughts from someone who is also learning.

I like to be able to say that all traction on my farm is provided by animal power. So method I would concider if I had lots of ground to till only once, would be to find someone with a big team of horses I could hire out to. I live close to Amish communities that plow with big teams of 7 and I could see them being able to deal with that type of job in a timely manner. I don’t have work for that meny horses on a daily basis (and wouldn’t want to maintain them), but it would be another option if you are lucky enough to live close to people who have big teams.

Another thing to think about now that I have started blathering, is how you are going to harvest and thresh your grain. That might be another important bottleneck.

[Andy Carson]

The two acres was with two passes over the ground with me walking behind. You could definately broadcast seed over a much larger area with a forecart moving faster and only making one pass. the spreader I was using actually worked really well, the only thing I would do if I was going do alot of ground is bring alot some bags of seed on the forecart. That said, the amount of land I can use is primarily limited by the amount I can prepare for seeding in a timely manner. That is to say, the capacity of the broadcaster is not the factor that limits how much land I can plant. Are you planning on tilling 23 acres with animal power? That’s a bigger piece than I could work. I would bet your ability to till the ground is going to limit you before your seeder does. Have you planned this out? Just some friendly thoughts…

I reread your thread and see that you are planning sequential crops. This helps me alot. Still, it is not easy to keep 5 1 acre plots growing as I would like them to. Still, I only use a single horse, so perhaps these figures out to be multiplied by two for a team. Also, western PA can get pretty “lush” at times and the weeds can go crazy, other areas are likley quite different and this will effect how much ground you can work. Again, just some friendly advice. I know when I started, I thought 5 acres was “tiny” and seemed almost “silly” by modern farm standards. After you walk it off in 2-4 foot strips, however, a single acre feels big behind a horse. Also, I think you can do alot with smaller pieces of ground, you just have to adjust your goals and expectations and find something unique you can do.

[Andy Carson]

Hi Sicklehocks,
I am glad you enjoyed this thread. The speader works really well, even thought it was designed for a lawn tractor. I didn’t have to adjust the gear ratio to use it, but it does help to be steady with your speed. The only thing I didn’t like was that the lever controlling the spread rate tends to slip and needed fixed with a couple thick rubber bands and some wire. Pretty easy. I found it much easier to spread the seed light and make multiple passes in different directions. The roller in the thumbnail didn’t last very long, I would recommend a modified construction method… This is discussed in the equipment section under “rake/roller.” Were you going to walk behind your spreader? I did, and was able to spread and roll about 2 acres in a day. The days weren’t really long, but they did involve alot of fast walking, and I got blisters. You could probably do twice that (maybe even more) if you want to sit on a forecart… I think another important factor for me was trying to seed right before a rain. In Pittsburgh that’s an easy thing, but in other areas of the world it might not be. How much land do you need to seed? Do you know what kinds of covers work well in your area? What are your goals for the cover crops?

[Andy Carson]

With “horse sized” forces and slightly more advanced mechanical advantage, truly amazing things are possible! This thread reminds reminds me of other stump pullers designed for horses. I think many of these were side pull instead of verticle like the photo I have attached. I am not sure of the internal gearing in these, but I think some are worm-gear based. These might be a good option for those really heavy duty pulls.

By the way, if that sweep arm is 15 feet long (diameter of ~50 feet) and the threads are 3/4 of an inch per turn, the mechanical avantage on the stump puller in the photo is about 800:1. This means a fully loaded railroad car (100 tons) could be lifted vertically by a single horse exerting a 250 pound pull. This excludes friction, which would proably be important here… Either way, it’s pretty cool… I am sorry if this sidetracks the thread, I know it is supposed to be about pulleys, ropes, and more portable systems. I just wanted to show this example of something impressive mechanical advantage can do.

[Andy Carson]

Oh well, you probably would have though of either ideas if what you were doing didn’t work… I find it interesting that your team was able to move the truck with a buffer but not without. It would be fascinating to know if this was due to reduced peak load or to increased animal comfort. I don’t want to derail your thread, but it is always fun to see an idea applied towards some positive benefit.

[Andy Carson]

Sounds exciting… Where was your pulley?

[Andy Carson]

an interesting article, outlining several techniques for harvesting field peas, including a stubble rake. More food for thought… http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/objtwr/imported_assets/content/fcp/lp/fp/cp/bull4569.pdf

[Andy Carson]

I was considering using a sickle bar mower mostly because I thought it would be a “slam dunk” from the point of view of cutting the peas. If it is not (and it sounds like it is not) than perhaps making a different piece of equipment is justified. It sounds like the knife method would work, especially if the peas were planted in rows, but I can’t help feeling like I am reinventing the wheel. I am sure there must have been some “pre-mower” method that was useful. I found the rake method, but it’s hard to find someone who has seen this methods and can confirm that it was either common or effective. Where are out 150 year old DAP members?? 🙂

I am not sure that using a twin row harvester would definately require a twin planter. The peanut knives I found were 46 inches long, so would cut a 32.5 inch path at a 45 degree angle. If I have 20 inches between the knives (at the rear of an inverted “V”) that would cover rows as close as 20 inches or as wide as 85 inches. I plan on using 42 inches between rows, so I would have to be pretty far off with my seeding to not hit one row with each knife. If I do really screw up, I can just make another pass anyway…

As far as a thresher, I was thinking of some small stationary unit that would probably be powered by a gas engine. Ideally, it would be small enough that I can haul it to the field on a sled and I don’t have to haul the straw and chaff twice.

[Andy Carson]

The row vs solid planting was what I was thinking about, and mostly why I was investigating harvesting techniques. I had originally thought about planting the peas in rows and harvesting them with some “as-yet-to-be-defined” method. As the width to be cut is rather small (if planted in rows) I thought there would be some relatively efficient way to harvest the rows. I think the bean knife would work here. It does create sidedraft issues, as Tim points out, which could be addressed by using twin knives. Using twin knives means I have to use a twin planter. With the time and expense of buying parts for and making a twin no/min till planter and this knife harvester system, I could simply buy a small sickle bar mower. The mower also solves the issue of the horse stomping on the peas before cutting/pulling. The mower would also be useful for my pastures, and for a myriad of other tasks, where the bean knife system would sit 364 days of the year. If I have a mower, I think I would plant the peas solid with disc/broadcast/disc/roll. This is the path that I think I am attracted to now, but I’ll ruminate on it a bit.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks for all the opinions. I am not discounting the more standard “swath and dry” approach, but this bean knife seems interesting to me. I found a peanut knife (46 inches) that has an optional lifter attachment that would probably make a nice windrow. I bet I can pull one of these at a one inch depth…

[Andy Carson]

Good questions Tim. I still don’t know how I’m going to thresh my peas, but it is probably going to somewhat barbaric and “low throughput”. I am not extremely concerned about it though, because I think the market for fried peas is probably not really high and a lot of the peas are going to end up as chicken and pig food. I won’t thresh the animal food. I don’t have any specific complaint about swathing, I just don’t own a mower. I keep thinking about getting one and then figuring out ways around it. I probably will at some point in the future but I have a lot of equipment to buy and make still and things I can get by without are not high on my priority list. I hadn’t really thought about the knife cutter or other mechanisms, as I wanted to see if the concept made much sense in the first place. I was really hoping someone had seen this technique used with horses and I could simply “copycat.” The Sund mechanism makes me think the idea is sound though…

[Andy Carson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SMRFmN1FDs

Here is a link to a Sund lifter mechanism designed for combine usage. They demonstrate the lifter in field peas that have not been swathed, and the rake simply feeds the mat of peas from the field into the combine. A very similar mechanism to a simple rake… Not having to swath the peas might make me redesign my pea field. I am only familiar with the “swath and dry” technique. This “direct pickup” technique is new to me too. It does seem to work though, both with the horse drawn rake that I read about and this very modern lifter system. I wonder if the moisture would have to be “just right” though… I also wondered if the horse drawn system is tougher to get to work than it sounds, so I wanted to check to see if anyone has seen it work. I would bet this is a “pre-mower” technique and might be somewhat lost in time.

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