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Andy Carson
ModeratorI am sure that a good sized horse can pull that manure spreader behind a forecart. I have seen the reel mowers you are refering to sold to be pulled behind horses. I have never used this type of mower, but I am under the impression they might not deal with long grass or tough weeds very well. You can find sickle bar mowers for single horses or they make gas powered rough cut mowers meant to be pulled (again) behind lawn tractors and ATVs. These mowers are noisy, spooky things by the way, and can hurt you and your horse easily. It wouldn’t be the first machine I would hitch up to!
Andy Carson
ModeratorAlot of team equipment for farm work is simply too big for a single horse, so you might not get alot of “bang for your buck” cutting it down. Substitutes come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and intended applications, though.
If you want to run the largest variety of equipment with the least modifications, I would recommend you get a forecart. You are probably going to want one anyway, they are handy for alot of reasons. I mostly use mine to give friends and family cart rides because they seem to love them, but they are properly used for pulling implements. I like to walk because sometimes I can be a contrary bastard. At any rate, once you have a forecart, you can hook all sorts of things up behind it in the same way that would hook them up behind a tractor. The implements are, obviously, going to be much smaller than tractor implements. I have seen manure spreaders designed for ATVs that you could pull easily with a single horse and a forecart, for example. I simply use a sled and a harroe to spread manure, though, because I don’t really have that much to spread and a sled is so useful for so many other things. The disc I use is modified from a lawn tractor disc and I will admit I did have a tough time finding a disc for a single horse that I liked. Harrows, both spike tooth and spring tooth often come in detachable sections and are easy to size to a single and can be pulled behind a forecart easily enough. Plows (if you are interested) do come in a size for a single horse. There are alot of walk behind cultivators for single horses too. I also use a broadcast spreader that was intended to be pulled by a lawn tractor. Not sure what else you might need… One of the nice things about using “repurposed” equipment is that the price is often low and with a little elbow grease you can get something nice without alot of money. When you have to outfit yourself in short order, the savings really help.
Andy Carson
ModeratorThanks for the thoughts Tim. One of the plots with rye in it (it was supposed to be rye/vetch) is going to be strip tilled at 6 foot intervals for pumpkins. I am following a model where the rye between rows was rolled. I really like the idea, but I am not sure my roller is going to do what I am hoping for. I might mow it with a small gas powered walk behind brush trimmer I have. I am open to other ideas as well if you or anyone else has thoughts. The idea is to leave it as cover for the pumpkin vines to spread over and act as a mulch. In a perfect world, I wouldn’t need to incorporate it until after the pumpkins are harvested. The other plot with rye in it is destined for buckwheat. I am sure you are right that I need to get on tilling this ASAP, but I take some comfort in that buckwheat (at least from what I’ve read) grows so fast and so thick it might out compete rye after the weather warms up. That said, I’m still going to try to get rid of as much rye as possible. Overall, I’m really impressed with rye as a cover for my situations. It is so much slower to establish in the fall than oats, and might become a control issue in the spring. I’ll know more after I see how it goes in the pumpkin patch, but I might switch to a different overwintering small grain next year. Maybe I’ll try triticale…
Andy Carson
ModeratorI mostly grew up riding horses, and learned draft work later, so I know this is something people can do. It isn’t easy though. I had substantial help for my first drives (especially with harnessing, hitching, and horse selection), and my first horse was an old, slow, gentle, draft horse that had done farm work her whole life and knew what to do when asked. I also have the advantage of being fairly young, difficult to hurt, and generally learn quickly. Even given these advantages, it wasn’t an easy task to pick up. I am not saying that you can’t do it, just to let you know to have respect for the descipline and realize that this type of training is going to be difficult. Couple this with performing draft work that you are (I think) also unfamiliar with and it is going to be a very very steep learning curve. One of the biggest things to get used to is just how dangerous this type of work can be and how important that your horse knows “Whoa.” Until you have seen a runaway, it is difficult to imagine how destructive dragging stuff can be behind a spooked horse. Think of a 500 pound sledgehammer being swung by a 2000 pound gorilla, and you’ll get an idea. I am not trying to discourage you, just trying to explain that these kinds of difficulties aren’t things you can “ride out” like you can on horseback. Although there is alot of horsemanship that is similar, it really does require a different set of skills. Something to think about… Another thing to think about if how many hours you would spend driving to look at horses versus how many hours you would spend breaking a horse to drive… This isn’t going to be an easy thing for the horse to pick up either. I am sorry this message sounds bossy, I just really want to help you set yourself up for success.
PS. Yes, Yes, have a carriage guy help you. The work may not be the similar in some ways, but having someone with driving experience get you started will help you out immensely. They would probably also know where to find a horse nearby.
Andy Carson
ModeratorNext spring report on the cover crops.
The plots seeded with rye, which didn’t look impressive last year, look much more impressive this spring. The rye might make a good cover for me after all. The hairy vetch which was planted along with the rye in one plot didn’t look very impressive last year and I can’t find it at all this spring. Perhaps maybe I’ll find some later, but I think this is still a loser for me. The red clover is growing great in the areas where is got established last fall. There is no improvement in areas with poor establishement, but I am happy with anything concidering how late I got it planted. The two biggest suprises are that a substantial amount of oats actually lived through the winter. Probably 90% winter killed, but I was expecting 100% kill so was suprized to see that the green was (mostly) oats upon further inspection. It might have survived as seed, as I could see the seed coat attached to some. No matter really. I am still quite happy with the oats and will use them again. Another interesting observation is that many turnips seem to have lived through the winter too. Almost all of these have shrivelled roots attacted to them, but the leaves are green and look healthy where I can find them. I might mistake the oats for something else without the seed attached, but there is no mistaking turnips… Here again, it’s probably 90% winter kill, but not 100%. Interesting to see but I doubt it means much. I’ll use the turnips again too. I really liked these planted along with oats. The deer absolutely loved them too. I gave up on trying to keep the deer out of the turnips after weather got cold and the deer (I think) ran out of other food. Just an update.
Andy Carson
ModeratorYes, finding a full range of equipment for a single is tough, but it is definately possible and you can find what you need if you really want work a single. It sounds like you are more interested in a team anyway, and there is nothing wrong with that. My two cents is that you will definately spend alot more time training a team to drive (if this is still something you are thinking about) than the time you would spend to go pick up a team that is far away. You will get a much better start with a team that knows what it’s doing. I see well broke Halflinger teams for sale all the time around here. I know it’s a long way, and you can surely find something closer… I would really do my very best to find a team that already knew what it was doing.
PS. If you really are interested in a single, please let me know what pieces of equipment you are having a hard time finding and I can tell you what I use and/or where I found it. There really isn’t anything wrong with a team, but if you only have work for a single, don’t let the equipment issue hold you back.
Andy Carson
ModeratorIf you have less work you could consider using a single draft. I use a single and am pretty happy with her. You might want to think about getting an animal that can take Florida heat, and I’m not sure if a big draft is going to be your best choice for that. There are several days a year where I can’t work my draft (or have to work very lightly) because it’s too hot or too humid, and I live in western PA. My wife has an arab/andalusian riding horse and the heat never phases him, even on the hottest days. There is a world of difference between these two in terms of how they take heat. The other thing I would say is if you haven’t driven or worked a horse before, you are better off getting and horse that drives and teach it to ride. I have done this a couple times and I am only a passable rider (although I can always as my wife for help with this). I can’t really comment on how to find your horse(s) in florida, though. I am blessed with living close to Amish communities that make finding work horses pretty easy… Good luck with your farm and your horses!
Andy Carson
ModeratorI got my pea field disced up today so my spring work has officially started! I really didn’t think I would be able to do anything after all the rain we have been having, but today was 80 degrees and windy. Dried things up fast! The disc penetrated very well and it looked like it was doing what I wanted it to do. The disc really doesn’t make any progress on the dozen or so spots of grass that had grown to small patches of sod, despite several trips at different angles. These spots of sod are few and far between, though, so I’ll just go back and dig them up by hand with a shovel. I need to make a few trips and pick rock anyway. Good day. Nice to spend it behind my horse. I am very proud of her for getting right back to work with no fuss after a long winter with only a few jobs for here here and there.
As an aside, I did have a couple spots that were wetter than others so I got to see what would happen if it is really wet. Surprisingly, these disced up just as nicely as everything else. I could see if it was a heavy disc, it could sink deep and bring up deeper layers of soil that could dry out and make the going tough. With a light disc, thought, I just mix up the top 3-4 inches or so. There is so much material in this layer from degrading cover crop, crop/weed residue from early last year, and other organic stuff, that I can’t see this material ever drying out and turning to bricks. A couple inches deeper, and I’m pretty sure it would be another story…
Andy Carson
Moderator@mitchmaine 26208 wrote:
still looks like incredibly hard work.
Definately, placing heavy stones into precise locations is going to be tough no matter how you do it…
Here’s a somewhat different thought that might be alot easier. You have probably seen those rock filled wire cages the highway crews use to control erosion. You could make some heavy wire cages and simply fill them up with rock. If you are clever about reinforcing the cages to prevent spreading, you could have a nice wall made of rock with perfectly verticle sides. Also, because of the cages, you wouldn’t have to be as careful about rock placement of the size and shape of the rocks/stones involved. In a perfect world, you could use a ramp to elevate your stoneboat above the cage, and push or lever all your rock in without any lifting required.
Actually, now that I think about it, you probably wouldn’t need a full cage. The bottom of the cage would do little and the top would do nothing whatsoever (other than prevent spreading). You could probably get away with two heavy wire fences with heavy wire reinforcements running between the two at regular intervals to prevent the fences from spreading apart. I’m not sure of the forces involved if this fence got very tall, but I bet a field fence would let you get 3 feet or so of height. Maybe even 4 feet would be doable with a reasonable width. It will take alot of rock.
Andy Carson
ModeratorHmmm… It’s hard guess what might be the best system here without knowing more specifics… I might be tempted to rig up a small portable “crane” along the lines of the link below. The long rope on this setup as well as the ability of the attachment point to pivot would allow you to deliver stones very precisely to a fairly wide area without moving the base. Also, if you put the base on skids, it would be fairly easy to move the crane after you finish a section of wall. Of course your stones will surely vary in weight, so I might make the counterweight capable of being loaded with different weights (or distances from the pivot point) to counterbalance a specific stone. You could also use a comealong (or similar) to lift the load by pulling on the counterweight end of the arm, but I think for stone the size I am guessing yours are, I would prefer the counterweight system. With the counterweight, you could pull the stone down by hand and twist or rotate it into position before it’s released. It would make it alot easier if there was another person to operate the crane while you position… Just an idea. It would be easy to make something like this and you probably already have some scrap around that you can do it with…
http://mcaleese.com.au/acm/crane_history1.htmPS. I have never used this exact system, but I have used a tripod to move and position stones for as garden project using a tripod before. I probably spent 90% of the time moving the tripod around and making sure it was stable, and only maybe 10% of the time lifting rocks… So you are right about this system being slow. Perhaps with a very tall tripod the rope length would give you enough flexibility to cover a decent area with one position by pushing the suspended stone left or right. I would still prefer the crane setup though, and it’s pretty simple.
Andy Carson
ModeratorI have seen a hinged stoneboat before that was designed (I think) to pick up and haul heavy stones with animal traction. I have attached a link beolow where a guy is using one of these to haul round bales with a tractor. I have never persaonlly used one of these types before, but it might be just what you are thinking of. The simple design would be easy to make.
Andy Carson
ModeratorA cord is a stack of wood 4x4x8 feet or 128 cubic feet in volume. This is a somewhat arbitrary unit of measure that is (as far as I am aware) only used to measure firewood in the US. Still, it’s a very standard measure here. A cord is about 3.6 cubic meters to our european friends.
Andy Carson
ModeratorGeoff,
I think when I get around to making/modifying a drill, I will probably end up cutting down the width on a modern double disc opener type. The modern ones have all the “bells and whistles” I am attracted to, and cutting out some of the middle sections (and reattaching the end) seems easier that changing hoes to discs or swapping single discs to double discs. Perhaps you might cut down your Oliver, unless you are using ot for something else? I am suspicious that the angle, tilt, and spacing of the double disc openers is important and they have to withstand alot of force, and do all this without taking up alot of room. When the application requires precision, strength, and especially a compact size, there is “real” engineering required, so I am attracted to simply stealing the part off something else. 😉 Just a suggestion. If you really want to modify, perhaps you can “borrow” a double disc opener off of a working drill a reverse engineer (IE copy) the angles, brackets, and other details. You probably have some farmer friends that would let you look at thiers if you don’t like the design of your Oliver… If you don’t know anyone who has the type of drill you are interested in, PM me and I’ll give you the contact info for the guy I used to work for. His farm is between Moscow and Troy. I have no idea if he has any extra parts that you could borrow to copy, although he does have an impressive array of spare parts. I don’t think he would be very keen on selling his equipment or parts, but might know someone who is… Either way, he would certainly let you inspect, take lots of pictures (and figure out how to copy) the equipment he does have. It’s all big tractor equipment, so who know what ideas you can use. Just let me know.Andy Carson
ModeratorRobert,
the rope doesn’t get in the way of things in this particular location. It is only about three feet out from the corner. I mostly use this space when the door is open and the rope is right up against the wal when the door is open. If you had a very snug spot, this system might not be the best. On the other hand, you could shorten the rope and add more weight and it would take up less room.Andy Carson
ModeratorSo here’s some speculation on the shape of cattle horns that may or may not be important. Oxen are certainly not my area of expertise, but I can’t resist.
One functional aspect of horns that I seen mentioned from time to time is their ability to dissipate heat and cool the animal. This is a little hard for me to completely accept, as the surface area of the horn is (as least in most cattle) so small in relation to the surface area of the rest of the animal. It is, however, not covered in insulating hair and/or fat, and is highly vascular, so perhaps it is important. You do see very large and long horns on some cattle from tropical areas, which is another sign that it might be important… Still, many of these animals have loose skin which might help too… Either way, let’s just say (for the sake of argument) that horns are indeed an important cooling mechanism.
Assuming this cooling aspect is important, both the size and the shape of the horns would have important implications for cooling. When hot horns are in contact with cool air, there are two mechanisms for heat transfer, conduction and convection. If there is any air movement at all, the contribution of conduction is negligible and convection is the only mechanism worth considering. Newton’s law of cooling states that the heat transfer (dQ/dt) from a solid surface of area (A), at a temperature (Tw), to a fluid of temperature (T), is governed by the equation dQ/dt= h*A*(Tw-T). Some of this is obvious; a greater surface area of the horn and/or colder air will yield greater heat transfer… One interesting (and maybe not so obvious) factor is just how important and variable the factor h (or the heat transfer coefficient) is in determining total heat transfer. Heat transfer coefficients for free convection are less than 25 W/m2K as air movement is determined by the buoyancy of the hot air surrounding the cooling object. The buoyancy of 100 degree air (from horns) in an environment of 75 degree air would be very small and yield tiny levels of air flow. Forced air movement over the horns (from walking or swinging of the head) would likely dominate the heat transfer equation with coefficients of 20-200 W/m2K. I think this makes good sense. Hot soup takes a long time to cool unless you blow on it. Hot pieces of metal cool a lot faster when you wave them around in the air. It does make a big difference in these examples.
So how might horn shape affect this? Relatively small movements of an animal’s head are translated into relatively large movements at the ends of horns that extend for away from the center of the head. These large movements would be translated to higher air velocities towards the end of the horn and would yield disproportionately large levels of heat transfer. Let’s consider some specific examples. An ox might have a head width of a foot and horns extending another six inches before they curve back to the midline. With the same head movement, the outward curve of the horns of this ox would experience half the wind velocity as a similar ox with horns that extending outward (either laterally or diagonally) 18 inches. An extreme example, such as a Texas Longhorn or Ankole‑Watusi, might experience 3 times the wind velocity of the curved horn ox if their horns extend away from the center of movement by 36 inches.
Again, I don’t know how important horn-mediated cooling is in the first place. If it is, I think the shape of the horns would likely be as important (and possibly more important) than their overall size. The oxen people will have to tell us how important cooling is to the performance of oxen. If they are like horses, then it’s a pretty important factor.- AuthorPosts