[Andy Carson]

I went back to my local dairy to get another gallon of milk today and started a conversation about raw milk. Come to find out, the farmer is a big proponent of raw milk and actually sells quite a bit of it. You just have to ask for it, and sign some documents saying you are a member of a co-op, are an informed customer, know it’s not pastized, won’t sue them, etc. I think that without all these conversation about raw milk I wouldn’t have even thought to ask… Either way, the milk that was yumy pasturized tastes even better (actually MUCH better) raw. Maybe it adds some credibility that I expected it to taste much the same… I am definately a convert. Thanks everyone for bringing this topic up enough I tmhought to ask and if anyone out there hasn’t had raw milk recently, give it a try.

[Andy Carson]

Thanks Tim,
This is an interesting study. One of the most suprizing things to me is that the weed control benefit (if there ever was one) seems to be lost after the first year. If you look at figure 2, you can see that there are virtually no weeds in field treated with either glycophosphate or Veplar, but after the first year, the weeds are roughly the same between untreated, glycophosphate and Veplar treated groups. It’s hard to tell this for sure, because I am looking at the presense and absence of a tiny red mark on a graph that is that is tons/acre. I would have liked to the weed population on a different scale so you can visualize differences easier, but still this is interesting… Perhaps the weeds adapt this fast? Perhaps the glycophosphate sensitive weeds are eliminated early and what is left are weeds that are are more difficult to kill with glycophosphate. Perhaps we are looking at annual weeds, although many of the weeds they list as predominant weeds are penenials. If there is weed protection for the first year, RR alfalfa might be easier to get established in an area with alot of weed pressure. It appears from the study that these benefits might be lost after the first year. I am not a big proponent of RR alfalfa, just trying to provide a different view point… Using this study, this is the only potential benefit I can see. Of course, you also get this same beenfit from using Veplar, so it might not be important to have the RR alfalfa. I think these data generally demonstrate a failure…

[Andy Carson]

I have ordered several parts for projects from Agrisupply before. They carry more parts than they list online too, if you want something different than they list you can simply call. Alot of the parts are foreign made, but if you are making your implement than it’s made in the USA anyway… That’s how I look at it at least. I have no experience with wooden bushings. I suppose if they were used historically and people have success with them, than they must work OK at least. I would have guessed that this was an application where steel and grease would be better. That said, it’s probably not worth the effort to swap bearings if you can find replacement parts…

[Andy Carson]

Did the guy tell his team to “Get up”???:D

[Andy Carson]

I just recently happened onto a local dairy that I will get milk from in the future (There was a bridge out that took me on a road I don’t normally take). They use a different pasturization process that is more suitable to smaller dairies (I can’t remember the details of it). The milk tastes fantastic, although I have no idea what the pasturizing has to do with it. Maybe I am tasting the freshness of the milk or possibly the fact that the cows are grassfed? Either way, maybe the facts that it is fresh, local, and raised with care is more important to my tastebuds than the pasturizing issue? I certainly support everyone’s right to buy, drink, and sell nonpasturized milk if they want to, but just wanted to share this thought… Personally, if I had the choice of fresh local pasturized milk and old, nonpasturized milk from a distance away, I know what I would pick… If I had the luxary of choosing between fresh, local, pasturized milk, and fresh, local, nonpasturized milk I would probably let my tastebuds choose. I am not sure which they would go for… I would certainly be open to either possibility.

[Andy Carson]

Hmmm… You all are making me feel like a better teamster (or at least a better singlester). 🙂 I convinced my wife to help out, but she insists on riding… My mare does this fine though. Rain has again kept me sidelined though until the end of this week. The forecast said it wasn’t supposed to rain yesterday, but it did anyway.

Thanks for the reality check. It’s better to have reasonable expectations…

[Andy Carson]

I made the disc from a used disc origionally made for a lawn tractor. It’s about 3.5 feet wide. I replaced the disc blades that caem with it b/c I was not happy with the penetration of the smooth disc that came with it. The notched blades work alot better. I got the front swivel wheel and seat from tractor supply. I like to buy used and/or recycled stuff when I can, but often end up having to mix in some new parts. What are you thinking of making?

[Andy Carson]

Thanks for the thoughts,
Maybe much of the wandering is indeed due (in large part) to my split attention… I really like Erikas suggestion of marking the rows with something first then coming back with the seeder. I think I’ll try that then I can focus on one less thing at a time. I can indeed see the mark left by the previous pass, but sometimes there was a little wondering in the previous pass, so I was trying to mentally adjust for this by taking into account both where the mark is, where the mark ought to be, and what is straight in my mind. If I continue to follow the mark left by the previous pass solely, a small wonder turns into a big sweeping curve after several passes. It becomes a lot to think about… Aren’t I supposed to be the brains of this work party? :rolleyes: It seems I am not doing my job!:D

[Andy Carson]

tried seeder today and the bicycle wheel didn’t have enough down pressure (or traction) to run the mechanism in the field. It runs fie on the lawn but I definitely underestimated the traction different between lawn and soil. I have a fix in mind, though, so we’ll see. Lost my day though, and it’s supposed to rain again tomorrow…

[Andy Carson]

@sickle hocks 26373 wrote:

…thinks the disc might not incorporate the stubble residue well enough…he’s probably right.

If you disc like I disc, there will indeed be residue left on the surface. It might bug you to look at it, but what harm does it do? It’s good for moisture retention and as long as it doesn’t muck up your seeding or provide long term refuge to weed grasses, the residue is probably an asset rather than a liability. It takes alot of residue to muck up a broadcast spreader! 🙂 So, as long as moisture isn’t a limiting factor, I bet this system will work for you too. I have had great experiences with oats and clover on my land. Good luck again Murray and enjoy your drive. I got my pea plot disced again yesterday and it was still a good bit too wet to plant into. It’s sunny out today with a good breeze, so if the moisture is OK this afternoon, I’ll be seeding today. It ought to be fun and I’ll definately take some pictures.

[Andy Carson]

I broadcast the oats onto ground that was disked several times and then rolled without harrowing. It would definately be better to harrow after seeding, and I will do that next time I seed. Harrowing doesn’t take alot of time, either. Still, I got a very good stand of oats as a cover crop. I think I was able to get away with this because it rained hard for several days right after I seeded so the seed remained moist without being buried. Also, the disc left a rough surface with many small cracks and crevases for seed to fall into. Like I said, it worked for me, but I would recommend harrowing. I have had good success with clover using a similar system, but hairy vetch was largely a failure possibly because of seeding depth. I am not sure what legume you are proposing to mix into your oats or how deep it needs seeded. I would bet you could target a shallow location for both your clover and cereals and it would be fine if you get moisture at the right time. Oats (in my hands at least) seem to germinate and grow well even if seeded shallow. I am not sure if this is indeed a scientific fact, but more of an observation from one year. Either way, getting moisture at the right time might be a big “if” if you don’t get alot of rain in general.

The clover and turnip seed I broadcast right along with the oats seed and other than that the clover separate a bit, I had no problem. OldKat had a tip to mix in some coarse sand, which I will try when I do this again next fall.

I think we all have different challenges in different climates and land. My challenge has never been moisture, it’s mostly been weed control. I probably spend more time and passes disking and getting a plot ready to plant, and less time worrying about if the seeds will germinate. Put another way, everything seems to grow on my land, it’s a question of if it can beat the weeds (or even get enough of a head start that I can help out with cultivation). I don’t know how much of this info is going to be applicable to you and your land and climate. Also please take all this info with a grain of salt as I tend to try newer techniques which might be described as somewhat experimental with animal power. I have no way to compare them to older established techniques and can’t say if they are indeed better or worse. They are just techniques that have worked for me one fall. Best of luck to you!

[Andy Carson]

@Thecowboysgirl 26339 wrote:

Is everybody’s general consensus that a single well built mule or well built larger riding horse) would be strong enough to do the work here? Assuming it knew how to drive? I keep coming back to the mules since they are much more often broke to drive than are QHs etc.

I think you would do fine with a single work mule. The only work I see you listing that gives me pause is your proposed acre of garden, mostly because of the potential of plowing. I am very unfamiliar with gardening practices as far south as you are… Do you have an “off” season there or will you be growing different crops in small plots all year round? If this is the case, you could hire a neighbor with a tractor to break open your garden area for you (just once), and you could maintain it with your single. That kind of system works around here, but I am very unfamiliar with what farming/gardening is like in florida and have no idea what weed pressure is like there.

[Andy Carson]

Yip, that is exactly what I was meaning with the rope. I don’t use it much, mostly on a slip scoop that can catch hard and I can’t always see what it’s catching on… I don’t worry about it on most of my other equipment. I don;t know if this is standard practice really, or just a habit I picked up from running some pieces fo equpiment that break from time to time.

You are probably going to spend some time looking for a sickle bar mower. There are smaller 3-4 foot bar mowers designed for a single horse with shafts instead of a pole. These aren’t as common as the larger types but I have seen them advertized from time to time. I keep thinking about getting one and then something else always comes up that I want more. If it was me, I would look for a single horse. It will have shafts like this.
http://www.drafthorseaustralia.com/mowerrestoration2004.htm

I have added another link here discussing draft loads for different pieces of equipment. Personally, I think a single animal does a little more than half of what a team does, but I’m not sure if thisis a majority opinion. I usually divide a team in half and round up. Here’s alot of loads for different implements.
http://www.ruralheritage.com/equip_shed/draft_loads.htm

[Andy Carson]

Yip, that is exactly what I was meaning with the rope. I don’t use it much, mostly on a slip scoop that can catch hard and I can’t always see what it’s catching on… I don’t worry about it on most of my other equipment. I don’t know if this is standard practice really, or just a habit I picked up from running some pieces fo equipment that break from time to time.

You are probably going to spend some time looking for a sickle bar mower. There are smaller 3-4 foot bar mowers designed for a single horse with shafts instead of a pole. These aren’t as common as the larger types but I have seen them advertized from time to time. I keep thinking about getting one and then something else always comes up that I want more. If it was me, I would look for a single horse. It will have shafts like in the link below. You can see in the video that this is hard work. If you are interested in a mule (which i think is a fantastic idea) I would guess you will want a big strong mule for this type of work. Donn if our resident mule expert, and he would know more than me.
http://www.drafthorseaustralia.com/mowerrestoration2004.htm

I have added another link here discussing draft loads for different pieces of equipment. Personally, I think a single animal does a little more than half of what a team does, but I’m not sure if this is a majority opinion. I usually divide a team in half and round up. The link below has draft loads for different implements. If you want to know a specific load, just troll old posts or simply ask.
http://www.ruralheritage.com/equip_shed/draft_loads.htm

[Andy Carson]

In my hands, alot of equipment is adaptable to a single horse. When I am trying to adapting different pieces of equipment from lawn tractors/ATVs (or “normal” tractors), I try to keep several things in mind that are fundamentally different between these modes of traction. Firstly, all these machines produce more horsepower that a single horse. By horsepower, I mean in the classical sense of force times velocity. The machines do this because they exert small forces (exploding gas) really really frequently. The horse does this by producing big forces (hundreds of pounds of contracting muscle) relatively infrequently. When horses produce similar power to engines (which is rare), they do so because the forces of thier legs is just tremendous. Another important thing to think about is that machines produce a certain amount of power pretty regularly, where horses can easily produce 10 times thier “steady pull” power for a short time. Yet another important factor is that horses weigh alot more than a lawn tractor or an ATV, and have nearly prefect “gearing” to apply all thier power to a pull. Lawn tractors and ATVS really aren’t geared for slow hard pulls. Any size of “real” tractors is. All these differences have important consequences when adapting equipment. Long story short, I have found that even a single horses produce less power than a machine, it can be hard on equipment due to strong instantaneous forces that can be applied and the extreme traction that allow these forces to act, which becomes especialy important if the implement gets hung up on something.

Blah, Blah, here’s a flow chart of how I think about (and have gone about) adapting ATV/tractor equipment:

1. Can you pull or push the implement for a few steps?

Yes- Your horse can pull it, go to #5
No- go to #2

2. Was this implement desigend for a “real” tractor (as opposed to a lawn tractor or ATV)

Yes- Your horse won’t break it (unless it’s really old or obviously flawed), go to #3
No- You horse might break it but can almost certainly pull it, go to #5

3. Is this implement sized appropriately for a single horse? (compare to traditional horse implements, draft charts, DAP, etc)

Yes (rare)- You horse can use it and won’t break it (Yeah!)
No- go to #4

4. Can you cut down this implement or just use part of it?

Yes- compare to alternatives (If it still looks good, modify it)
No- walk away

5. What happens if the implement/trailer/etc hits an obstruction that it is likely to meet in normal use and the horse pulls really hard?

There is a verticle “bump” (IE a wheel going over a rock) -don’t worry
Implement slides over object -don’t worry
Implement catches on a weak spring (IE cultivator or harrow) -don’t worry
Implement catches on a strong spring (IE chisel) -go to #6
Object catches hard and doesn’t move -go to #6

6. Is it important that the horse be able to pull really really hard when using this implement?

No- Incorporate a piece of rope, small chain link, or shear bolt to act as a “fuse” to keep the flimsy thing from breaking
Yes- Reevaluate if you really need this thing (walk away or beef everything up)

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