[Andy Carson]

@grey 34195 wrote:

I think that when I’m up on the seat of the disk, very little weight will ride on the trucks.

I am sure you are right, but that’s not what I’m getting at. Imagine drawing a straight line from the tugs back the bottom of the disc where the drag is the greatest. Is the attachment point above of below that imaginary line? If the attachment point is not in line with the true line of draft, the front wheels will be drawn up or forced down when the animals pull. If the attachment point is high and the beam is short, the downward force from the pull could be substantial.

[Andy Carson]

@near horse 34198 wrote:

Have you looked at that “other” multi-tool (not the homesteader)? Any thoughts on its design?

Thanks for the compliments, Geoff.

When I started farming with animals, I was really interested in a multi-use tool, but have become much less interested as time has gone on. My feeling is that there are small differences in how exactly you would want to hold, use, turn, and otherwise manipulate any given tillage tool. A frame that is designed to hold everything seems to be somewhat or a compromise between what is ideal for each individual tool. Sometimes this would matter, and sometimes not. In a rough way, I think you “save” in this system by using the same frame for each tool. The thing is, in my mind, the frame doesn’t have to be complex and might be the cheapest and easiest to make part of an implement. Having a separate frame for each tool means there is no change-over time and you don’t have to go chasing down some part or other. Also, by having different tools each with thier own frame, if one tool breaks, you can switch tools (and possibly jobs), but you don’t have to just go back in the house. These are what has kept me in single use-type tools.

[Andy Carson]

Interesting… I think that makes sense. Any theories on why that strap was added? Possibly only to overcome the torque from using that bottom shackle in a 4-up team? I think you are right that if you use the bracket, this shouldn’t be a problem. You might want to line things up and see if you are going to be able to use that top bracket and remain close to the best line of draft. If it is far above the theoretical best line of draft for your implement, it is going to drive the truck down onto the ground, which seems wasteful and unnecessary. If this is the case, it could be compensated for by a longer beam, but at some point this gets difficult to turn with very long beams. On the discs I made/modified, I liked having the attachment point just a little bit below the theoretical line best line of draft. That bring the nose up a inch or so every now and then, but this is power that is recovered when the front drops back down and I feel a lift (rather than a downward press) was easier on the equipment. I suppose in a perfect world the attachment point would always be precisely in line with the true line of draft, but in real world situations with variations in terraign, I chose to err on the side that I view as better.

It might be that someone was using that bottom shackle to remain truw to the line of draft, even though the truck was designed to use the upper bracket. This would also explain the addition of the steel strap…

[Andy Carson]

i had a few rainy days and the team got those days to rest up. Went back to discing today and they pulled great. Normal speed (not the slow creap) and did about 3/4 of an acre in an hour and a half of work. They weren’t even that tired when i put them away. Now they’ve got more power than I need!

[Andy Carson]

I was out discing today at got to try out my new nosebaskets. The heads came right up when they realized they couldn’t sneak grass. I actually hadn’t realized how often I had been telling them not to try to sneak a bite until I didn’t have to do it anymore. I was watching this like a hawk and possibly paying more attention to this eating than actually driving. Anyway, the nose baskets fixed this and the outing was very very nice and peaceful without me having to keep their noses out of bits of grass. I think they are going to have to work in nose baskets all the time now on. Easy fix.

[Andy Carson]

I have about 40 laying hens right now, and I still have people waiting for eggs despite the fact that they are laying like crazy right now. They are by far the easiest farm animal I have ever taken care of. I am not even sure what’s the second easiest, as anything else is a long way back… I might be able to talk my wife into a few more, but somewhere around this number is where you seem to go from “a person with some chickens” to “that house is overrun with chickens”. I had origionally thought I would grow and sell some for meat, but the eggs are so much more lucrative, and easier to find customers. Right now, I have a broody hen that is usually in some state of raising chicks (MUCH easier than a incubator, by the way) and only sell the male offspring of these for meat. Another bonus of having chickens is that they eat a lot of the bugs, including the fly larve that breed in the manure of large animals (IE, horse droppings, cowpies) and in the process spread the manure for you. They also stratch around in the compost pile a lot and provide a suprizing amount of surface mixing (although you still have to do the heavy lifting with a shovel). I really don’t know a downside. Maybe if you have bad predator problems… I have had good luck with an automatic chickien door that closes at night, a 4 wire electric perimeter fence, a big dog that barks at predators (although doesn’t attack them 🙁 ), and periodic trapping to get the few predators that have figured out that my dogs bark is worse than his bite. I mitigate the cost of feed by buying directly from a nearby farmer and storing the grain in 55 gallon drums. He gives me a better price than the elevator would pay partly because I pick it up from him and partly because the grain isn’t very clean. The chickens can pick through it just fine.

[Andy Carson]

I think I would still attach on top to the cup (if you are going to be using simple bolts & washers) or the bottom if you are going to make a plate to make a steel “sandwich” around the beam. Of the two, the sandwich is definately stronger, for a couple reasons. Reguarding simple bolts, I believe attaching the beam to the top (in the cup) will be stronger because any verticle forces resulting from pulling on low shackle would hinge around the front of the cup (assuming the big peice of wood here is not compressable). This would act as a case 1 lever to try to pull the bolts though the beam at the rear of the cup with a force that is roughly the same as the verticle force applied at the shackle (the distance from the front of the cup to the shackle looks about the same as the distance from from of the cup to the back of the cup). Perhaps this is why there are some many bolts holes back there? If you attach the beam to the bottom of the cup with simple bolts, verticle forces at the shackle will likely hinge at the rear of the cup, acting as a class 2 lever, and apply roughly twice the verticle force to pull bolts though the beam at the front of the cup. If you make a steel plate to sandwich the beam, it if difficult to know if the beam would hinge on the front or the rear of the cup, at both sides have spread the force over alot of wood. In this case, I think the beam with the most wood would be the strongest, and you can make a wider beam if you don’t ahev to carve it doen to fuit the cup. In the end, I think I would make a steel plate and attach the beam to the bottom, unless that placement gets in the way of the wheels when turning. It’s probably overkill, but it seems nearly as easy as other approaches. If it gets in the way of the wheels, however, attaching to the top of the cup with a steel plate is very close.

[Andy Carson]

OK, I’ll bite… I would certainly put that truck on the front of any disc I have used, I have gotten away with alot weaker wheels. I do, however, share you concern about the small attachment point. That strap of steel is a big clue. It definately looks like it didn’t come with the truck. I suspect it was added to keep the truck from rocking forward on whatever it was attached to before. From the looks of this truck, pulling from that bottom ring would put some strong forces on the rear and/or front of the cup, and how strong these are is going to depend on alot of other geometry. That strap says to me that they are strong enough to cause some rocking, it may rock a little ever with the strap. That said, if if was me, I would probably try it with a wooden beam (with the strap attached too) and just see how it goes. One of the really nice things about working with wood is that mistakes and miscalculations aren’t expensive or difficult to fix. It’s one of the things that has kept me in wood for a lot of what I make, at least for the parts that aren’t high wear. Good luck!

[Andy Carson]

OK, I’ll bite… I would certainly put that truck on the front of any disc I have used, I have gotten away with alot weaker wheels. I do, however, share you concern about the small attachment point. That strap of steel is a big clue. It definately looks like it didn’t come with the truck. I suspect it was added to keep the truck from rocking forward on whatever it was attached to before. From the looks of this truck, pulling from that bottom ring would put some strong forces on the rear and/or front of the cup, and how strong these are is going to depend on alot of other geometry. That strap says to me that they are strong enough to cause some rocking, it may rock a little even with the strap. That said, if if was me, I would probably try it with a wooden beam (with the strap attached too) and just see how it goes. One of the really nice things about working with wood is that mistakes and miscalculations aren’t expensive or difficult to fix. It’s one of the things that has kept me in wood for a lot of what I make, at least for the parts that aren’t high wear. Good luck!

[Andy Carson]

I’ll get you some more photos, and measurements for you, Kevin. The only thing I would change about this is that the notched discs do occasionally drag just the right size of rock into the frame which stops the disc from rolling. I put the frame close to the disces to shed mud. Not much mud this spring, but a rock the size of a plum is just about the right size to clog the thing. I have been toying with fixing this, but haven’t gotten around to it yet. It much not be a big enough problem. The boys wait patiently for me to get the rock out, and its not that hard.

I answer to your questions, Vicki, the field was disced (well, mostly disced -I kept breaking down with my old disc) in early fall and i planted a cover crop of triticale and oats. I had tried a cover crop of rye the year before, but it was too strong. This mix seems a little weak. Probably better too weak than too strong, but i think next year I’ll try a cover in between these two in vigor. This mix was not enough competition for perenial grasses, so I am taking the opportunity to till shallow and often in this plot. I am pretty disappointed with the triticale… The disc pushes more dirt over the top of the perenial grasses, which looks good, but I’m not sure if this is really going to kill it or just make it look good short term. It does make the soil fluffy, though, so perhaps the grasses will desicate somewhat if the weather cooperates. Last year I went through with a hand shovel and inverted the grass that was strong enough to clump. That seems to work well when you don’t have that many clumps. I’ll probably do the same thing this year. It seems sometimes you just get around inverting the soil, ESP in trouble spots.

[Andy Carson]

It was a prett simply build, really. It has box bearing that are simply bolted top and bottom to 2x4s. These 2×4 were then bolted at an angle to the frame and a chain was attached to the front. This is a tool that I use instead of a plow. It penetrates a bit more than my springtooth, and is heavy enough that is ripps through grass that the springtooth moves around. It also doesn’t plug up with grass. I choose to make this tool (rather than modify), as most small discs I would have modified were designed for secondary (rather than primary) tillage. They are often too wide, have smooth (not notched) discs, and many have weak bearings. I like the greasable super strong tractor-style bearings. Also, many small discs can be “tippy,” which this disc is not. By the time you get new disc blades, modify the width, get new bearings, and make the frame low to the ground, you might as well just make a new one. I can take more pics if you want to copy. I think you want to see how the bearings attach to the frame. This is kinda burrying in the frame, but the boards over and beneath, so doesn’t photograph really well. I put a link to teh type of bearing I used below, though, and you can probably imagine the bolts going through the bottom 2×4, the lower bearing half, the upper bearing half, and the top 2×4. I like this style of greasable bearing because you can tell when it’s greased and you can also take it apart to inspect if need be. I doubt I will even need to do this, but who knows.

http://www.agrisupply.com/Bearing-Half-For-Axle-Spool/p/28211/&sid=&eid=/

[Andy Carson]

@Tim Harrigan 34094 wrote:

We have had additional discussions about subsoiling, see the link below.

Yes, there is a very enlightening and thorough discussion in that thread. It answered all my questions.

[Andy Carson]

Welcome Adrienne,
Great to hear about your farm. I am also generally curious about subsoiling. The concept makes intuitive sense to me but I wonder how effective it is and if (and when) its worth the effort. From a brief read, it seems that crop yields agree that subsoiling is effective in some situations and ineffective in others. I wonder if natural freeze/thaw or wet/dry cycles or the presence of deep rooted crops can accomplish the goals of compaction reduction and increased aeration without the high draft of a subsoiler. I wonder how long these processes would take to return the soil to a more natural state in the absence of heavy traffic and/or moldbard plowing… I am also curious about the use of spiked rollers to aerate pasture soil and how this compares to aeration from subsoiling. It’s alot shallower, I’m sure, but they would pull easier and would likely cover substantial ground and could be done more often. I guess in a nutshell, I am asking why one would subsoil, how does one know it’s going to be effective or worth the effort, and are there alternative tools that might accomplish some of the same goals at lower draft? I am not being critical, I have just never seriously thought about subsoiling with animal power before…

[Andy Carson]

About 1/4 to 1/3 of an acre. I don’t have any sections more than one acre. I think they’ll work into this nicely. They pulled the disc for closer to an hour. They pull this disc really slowly. It is an effort for me to walk this slow, but i let them pull slow because this is hard work. Are you thinking of making one of these, or are you just curious?

[Andy Carson]

I caught my predator last night in a live trap. It was a relatively large male raccoon, he might have been pushing 20 lbs. I caught him with sardines and white bread. Kinda sad that he learned how to sneak around my dog. We’ll have to work on that.

[Author]

Posts