[Andy Carson]

I had another attack yesterday during the day in exactly the same spot. The feather trail overlapped with the last hen, actually. This hen was a younger buckeye/leghorn cross (jsut started laying) and these have been very aware and fast. They are mostly white, though, which isn’t supposed to be the best for flying predators. This hen didn’t have deep wounds on the back, just a few stratches. It did, however, have a very deep wound at the base of the neck on the right side, just forward on the wing. Exactly the same spot as the last hen. I still decised to put the hen down, but this one looked alot better than the last. I am less convinced this was a hawk b/c of the lack of back wounds. I wondered if my dog might have done it, but I have a hard time imaging how he would make such a precise cut in a specific area without mauling the hen. My coop has a secure pen attached that I am going to keep my birds in when I am not home until I can figure this out. I haven’t seen a hawk perching anywhere near this spot, but they do soar overhead fairly often.

[Andy Carson]

That’s a good tip with the line, Kevin. I kinda like my barrel wagon, but a long hose of some sort makes more sense. I wonder if big cattle will break poly pipe if they step on it. Thoughts?

[Andy Carson]

I had what I am pretty sure was a hawk attack yesterday. From the feather trail, I know the scuffle happened in the open and it looked like there was a fight (rather than a fast kill). It also happened during the day. I thought the predator had made off with a chicken and was looking for signs of what it was when I found the victim still alive in a shed. It was a mature barred rock hen, past her egg laying prime, but big and (formerly) in good health. Stab wounds had bloodied her back and there was a deep wound on the side of her neck at the base (just forward of the wing). They were very purposeful wounds from something that knew how to kill. I was honestly suprised she was alive. From the depth and severity of the wounds, I have a hard time believing she faught off the hawk herself. I think she was probably attacked, and my dog harrassed or attacked the hawk causing it to fly off without it’s prize. I had to put the chicken down as she was in a stuper, had lost alot of blood, and had deep wounds in large body cavities. I give alot of credit to my dog for “saving” this hen (at least for a short time). Granted, the hen still died, but the hawk was not able to actually feed on it and learned there was a dog in that location that was “dangerous.” I am not sure how well hawks learn such things, but perhaps this outcome saves other chickens in the future. Just thought I would share.

[Andy Carson]

True, it is good information to force yourself to know. Funny thing is that my boys eat everything in the new piece of pasture, including weeds, bushes, and small trees. That is except for thistles, which I cut myself when they expose them. Other than that, there are no noticable preferances… I felt bad for the boys in the nearly 90 degree heat and got them a shade, it was an old picnic-type shelter that I got for cheap. It folds down easily so I take take it to the next pasture. I thought they would really appreciate the shade, but they largely ignore it. Go figure… My next pasture is my biggest challenge b/c I have to haul water to it. They are really swilling the water now that it’s hot… The way it’s going, I can get a week off that pasture that I used to get two days off of. I am going to be able to use my old sacrifice area as a source of pasture too, as it has gone back to grass after being stripped bare for years. With everything together, I am ending up with too much pasture to get to. It’s really making me think about getting some beef calves that I could run in with the oxen (and perhaps creap feed?). It seems silly to have grass go uneaten, and with the rotation style I have too much for the critters I have….

[Andy Carson]

I am on my last rotation of my big pasture today. I got 20 days of grazing for two 1700-1800 lb oxen off this pasture running through it this time. I am amazed. This same pasture, not rotationally grazed, held a light and draft horse for only a week at most. The horses did have spots they didn’t graze, but that was substantially less that a quarter of the pasture. The horses also had some spots that they ripped up running around, but that seemed small too. I think the biggest difference was the rotational grazing technique. I am absolutely amazed at how much more productive this type of grazing is and the thought that it actually improves the pasture in the process is a wonderful bonus. The only downside is moving the fence everyday, but that seems a small thing for such huge improvements.

[Andy Carson]

My fence is 4 strands, with the bottom about 6 inches off the ground less than that and i figured I would have a hard time keeping weeds and grass off it. The spacing in between is kinda wide, but seems to work for me. I figured if predators learn to jump through the middle, I will add more strands. I think 6 is more standard.

[Andy Carson]

Here’s my two cents…
I think livestock guardian dogs are really great animals and thought alot about getting one for a while when I was loosing chickens for a brief period of time. In my location (and perhaps because of my attitude too) I didn’t want to have a livestock guardian dog without a fence to contain it. Without a fence, I worry that the dog would not know the borders of my land and start “claiming” my neighbors land. Some of my neighbors are relatively close, and others are seperated by open field rather than by fencelines or treelines. Most of my neighbors have dogs, so having a dog that aggressively defense poorly defines territory could create messy situations. I would be mortified if my dog went on someone elses property and killed one of thier small yappy terrier types. I could see that happening easy… I think the saying is “strong fences make good neighbors”… So, I felt I needed a fence that could contain a big dog, which I fully expected to be a committed livestock guardian. I ended up putting up multi-strand electric fence around the entire place. This fence works great at keeping my current multi-purpose dog in, but it is also extremely effective at keeping predators out. Since erecting the fence, I have had no predators other than possums, which I worry about less than most. I am not sure how possums seem to be able to evade the fence, but my multi-purpose dog really likes bailing these up for me so it’s a one-way trip. The fence completely eliminated raccoon visitors, and I haven’t seen sign of any others either. I know the thread is about guard dogs, but I felt like mentioning fences because the upfront cost between a fence and a guard dog might be similar, you might choose to put up a fence anyway, a fence works right away, takes no training, is easier and cheaper to maintain, kills no chickens, is never a danger to other stock or pets, never attacks your family or visitors, and can serve other useful purposes (IE containing animals that escaped other fences). I want to repeat that I do believe guard dogs are great animals and they would be the next step for me too, but strong fences are very nice as well.

[Andy Carson]

http://www.animal-science.org/content/77/9/2398.full.pdf

Here’s a link to a study comparing heat tolerance in hereford, brahman, and hereford/brahma, hereford/boran, and hereford/tuli crosses. I had never heard of borans or tulis before seeing this, but I don’t really know much about these indicus types. One of the studies looks at heat sterss response between these crosses at 36.7 degrees C (98 degrees F) and 88.5% humidity. Ouch!!! The herefords show clear signs of stress under these conditions, and the brahmans had impressive heat tolerance. The crossbreds fell in between, which isn’t suprizing, but this still represents big gains over the purebred hereford. Perhaps percentage crosses would be good compromise work animals for places that are hot, but not quite 98 degrees with 90% humidity? One of the things that concerns me to some degree is the mention that some of teh heat tolerance of Brahman cattle is due to a lower metabloic rate. This might translate to a lower work capacity than the taurus types, but i am only guessing here. Again, this is only out of curiosity, as my smaller taurus-type oxen seem to handle heat well enough for my region. Just an intellectual curiousity, really.

[Andy Carson]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever seen a Brahma/zebu/indicus type worked in the US? It would be very interesting to hear how their heat tolerance translates to working ability in the heat. It would be a fascinating experiment to perform. Too bad it takes so long to run such an experiment… Someone’s got to have tired this before, though. Does anyone remember?

[Andy Carson]

It is interesting to note that our ox friend that is the furtherest south (and would likely experience the most heat) says it is not a big deal. I think your oxen are herefords? I would not have guessed that a this would be a very heat tolerant ox by breeding, so I guess aclimation and conditioning are the dominant factors. It is interesting to note how brahma crosses and Spanish background cattle seem to be more common as beef animals in the south and in hot places. I don’t see many brahma types used as oxen in the US, but i don’t know many drovers in the south. I would have guessed what was good for beef would also benefit working oxen, but again it appears breeding is not as important as acclimation. Interesting…

[Andy Carson]

I did quite a bit of work this weekend with my boys (shorthorn/jersey crosses ~1700-1800 lbs) in temps that were 80-85 degrees. I watched them closely for signs of stress, but they seemed to handle the heat just fine. There was actually no noticeable reduction in their work ability. I think I was making too much of this concern over working in the heat… Good thing too, because I was working the hottest part of the day. The heat and dry are really helping with my fallow.

[Andy Carson]

Eek, that stinks, Jenn… 🙂 In related news, my dog and I have caught two possums hanging around the coop in the last couple weeks. My dog has decided he is a bay dog (although he barks with a particular pitch and intensity rather than bays like a true hound). Either way, he keeps the critter from getting away and calls “daddy” to see if it is truly a problem. I tease him some about being afraid to really get after a possum, as he weighs in excess of 110 lbs, but the system seems to work fine as is anyway. Kinda nice in some respects, because sometimes he corners a barn cat, and I can call him off and let it go. Also nice because I don’t have to worry as much about him getting injured of catching some sort of disease… I have never trapped a skunk before. Stinky proposition… How are you going to deal with your invader, Jen?

[Andy Carson]

I have been using your mobile polywire tip, Tim, and it has been working great. In my situation, it was easier to rotate the polywire around a central point (IE where the gate and the water are), creating grazing areas that are kind like the spaces between spokes on a wheel. Same concept, though. I like how I can control how much new grass the get (as this gives me good control over the bulk of thier intake), but they also have access to some of the areas that were recently grazed. This means they have grass they can nibble on and although they don’t get much from it when I get them out of the field, they are not totally “grass crazy” like they have been fasting in a totally grassless area.

[Andy Carson]

About the battery, I do not think this a good application for electric power. I think batteries are great for if the power output is low and continuous, or high and periodic, but high and continuous is hard. Lets say your mower takes 1 horsepower to run. Horsepower = (Current x Voltage x Efficiency)/746. Let’s be very optimistic and say you can get 70% efficiency, that means you will be drawing about 89 amps (1 = (current x 12 x 0.7)/746). They make 200 amp hour batteries in lead-acid for golf carts and RVs and such. They weigh about 130 lbs and cost ~$500 each. You might think you could mow for two hours on this, and you likely could, but the battery life is very poor is you discarge the battery completely. You can get ~500 cycles out of the batteries if you only use half the charge. That means two hours of mowing will require about 260 lbs of batteries, with a cost of ~$1000 new. I think most people would want to have the capability to mow a little longer than that, though, which is only going to increase the weight and cost. I would probably use 3 big batteries, so you can undersell a little, and this would weigh ~400 lbs. You could go with a lithium battery, which is only 30% of the weight, but a 200 amp hour battery is going to run you $2000+, and you’ll need at least two (probably three). Few people are going to want to spend $6K on batteries…

I think from a design standpoint, you are underestimating your ponies a bit. They can pull alot when it’s on wheels. The rule of thumb is they can pull 15% of thier body weight (I think this is actually a bit conservative, esp with ponies). Even if they only weigh 500 lbs each, this is 150 lbs of draft (500+500 x 15%) to work with. Estimating the draft of a wheeled cart/wagon at 10% of the weight, this means they can pull a load weighing at least 1500 lbs (probably more). I doubt the batteries or a trailer sicklebar is going to come close to this. Not that there is anything wrong with making the design as light as it can be, just pointing out that you have some weight to play with.

[Andy Carson]

I haven’t talked to Hugh, but I did talk to Hanna. I am calling dibs on the next bull calves barring anything unexpected. I will keep my eyes open for blue roan calves. I think these are often milking shorthorn or MS/holstein crosses, right? I did a quick google and found a dairy in my general area crossing Milking Shorthorns with various other dairy breeds, they say they get alot of blue roan calves. They calve 70+ cows a year, so your odds seem pretty good. You might be able to find something closer, but if not, it might work out that I could bring a pair to NY when I got to get my calves. Alot depends on the timing, but it’s something to think about. It would save one of us a long drive.
http://www.clovercreekcheese.com/news/march10.htm

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