[Carl Russell]

Welcome. Looking forward to getting to know you, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Bring a melon to share.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I’ve seen an ad recently in the Green Mountain Trading post, so I expect he is. He is always hard to get a hold of.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

After about 7 years of learning to work with horses, I started a pair of Holsteins. I found it to be very comparable.

The differences are really about the way you move, and the species-specific variations. Plowing is a really good task for cattle. If you get Holsteins they will grow fast (working sooner) and you will have a team weighing about 5000 lbs. They will do a lot of work.

I have a pair of Normandes (4000 #) right now that I started as calves and keep wondering when I will get time to work them. 4 animals is 4 animals no matter how you look at it, and it is hard to find the time to work with them.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Over the years I have had the occasion to go toe-to-toe with Vegans on a variety of issues, such as hunting, on-farm slaughter, and draft animals.

The point I usually start from is acknowledgment and commonality. I absolutely appreciate their point of view. Animals are in fact deserving of much more respect than most people have an understanding for. I say I love my animals. This is why I surround myself with them. I invest myself emotionally in their lives, whether I eat them or work them. I usually dismiss the concerns about treatment, because they are based on a lack of understanding.

I agree with Andy, we need to engage in these opportunities to practice this conversation, because the alternative is that we are caught off-guard by their shocking misunderstanding of the situation, and we look like we have our pants down.

I have found it very frustrating that many Vegans will use the shock and awe approach to frame the picture in such absurd terms that you might really seem to be a heathen. But like any confrontation, if you are not practiced, you cannot use it to your advantage.

I was asked to sit on a panel one time to discuss raising animals for my own meat consumption. We called it Taking Life to sustain Life. I purposefully asked the organizers to invite a Vegan author from Burlington to sit on the panel. I did not want to have a debate, I wanted to honestly present my experiences while there was another who could present quite another view. We agreed from the beginning that we would accept each other for our individual choices. Since we both hold Love as our primary guidance there was no way to undermine the other lifestyle, as each has its own majesty. It was a wonderful presentation. A real gem, and we both received several commendations.

I know it is not typical, nor is it easy, but I think it is worthwhile. We were threatened at NEAPFD a few years ago by Vegan Law Student with a protest because of unreasonable treatment of animals. I responded that they were welcome to attend, and to watch our teamsters, but that any protest or distraction of our working presenters and their animals would not be tolerated. They never showed up. I never even mentioned their accusations. Never validated any of the escalating comments in their threat, and they were apparently disarmed……

The truth of the matter is, in my mind, the argument is un-winnable. There is no point in arguing. I would rather find agreement and move on.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I agree with Donn. We have several places that it can go. Indoors at memorial arena if it is rainy (which it won’t be), or in the big show ring outdoors. Those areas will be in use all day Saturday, so it won’t be able to be set up until Sat PM, or Sun AM, but we can plan it out starting as soon as anyone gets there…..

Carl

[Carl Russell]

In the woods the chainsaw usually gets them riled up before the animals step in them. The noise and exhaust from the saw can keep them disoriented. It’s when you turn off the saw that they get you. I have dragged logs over ground nests before, and have had animals get stung, but I’ve never noticed that they were any more rattled than with biting flies, but I haven’t had the whole nest unload on them either.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome Jordan. I hope to hear about your progress. Good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Glad you escaped without issue. I’ve never seen them in plowed soil, but plenty of times in woods dirt, and under stumps.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Great stuff Jason. Makes me think about getting a videographer for next month.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Milk is directly produced from the blood of the cow, and as such it is enriched by the immune system of the animal. If the cow is out in fresh air, drinking clean water, and grazing good grass there are very few foods that are as good for you. Raw milk actually has active microbes in it, that act to prevent Lactose intolerance. Raw milk being a product of the immune system is excellent food for people with compromised immune systems.

There is no logic that can convince me that as an organism of the earth I should have to “treat” my food before I consume it. If you pick an apple up from under a tree, it’s pretty likely it landed where a deer shit. Not that we want to be eating filthy food, but just because something is Raw, or even exposed to bodily fluids, doesn’t mean that it is un-healthy.

The reason we started pasteurizing milk was because farms began to grow in urban areas where there was a good milk market, but little open land. Confined and fed food stuffs other than grass these animals got ill and the milk became contaminated. Rather than changing the farming model back to small herds on grass, we found pharmaceutical and technological solutions. Vaccinate the cows and cook the milk.

It is a cultural habit to drink pasteurized milk, but the stuff we sell and drink these days is just a calcium rich vitamin fortified liquid. There are actually many more people documented to have been made ill from pasteurized milk than from raw.

Below are some data presented by a friend of mine in a presentation she made this spring in VT.
CDC data show that 27,645 food bourne illnesses were reported in 2006. According to CDC Statistics, 48 out of 27,645 are attributed to raw milk.

From 1973-2005 1,585 total illnesses attributed to Raw milk, while 19,835 total illnesses were attributed to Pasteurized milk.

I see nothing healthful about milk that is produced from animals raised in confinement, pumped full of antibiotics, vaccines, growth hormones, and fed high energy feed, then broken down into components, cooked to kill all the active organisms, recombined in artificial proportions, and fortified with vitamins and minerals. Why would people feed this to their kids????

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I have cut 100’s of utility poles over the years and have found that they are reasonably easy to maneuver without much to-do. Felling and skid trail layout plays a huge role…..obviously. I think that using a pole trailer would actually be harder to control than just ground skidding.

Make sure that you let the LO know that low impact logging is not just about what equipment you use, but primarily about how the job is laid out, including marking for felling, and trail placement. You should not get stuck trying to fell a 70 foot stick into a place where you are going to have to swing it around a crop tree. Otherwise you might as well have a skidder.

This is a bit overreaching the original question, but it is a pet peeve of mine. We cannot continue to try to compete with machines by just replacing horses for the machine. The job has to be laid out to facilitate the animals, or using animals will not be an effective way to provide the desired results.

Anyway, if you can get the butts off of the ground with an arch, cart, or sled, then the load should move easily enough that you should be able to get them out efficiently. The other thing to consider is that many times pole harvests are exclusively poles, which means you have to work around sawlog of poorer trees that are not being cut because they aren’t part of the sale. In my experience those trees should be cut anyway. It may make the job a bit more complex in terms of managing the landing, but it will make all the difference in the woods.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I would think it would also reflect a rise in affluence as well. Cattle are very capable, but their biggest advantages are the ease of care, and low tech harnessing.

As the farm communities in the fledgling US grew there was more capital to invest in horses, harnesses, and the diversity of equipment.

I doesn’t mean that oxen aren’t just as viable as they ever were. These numbers just reflect the trend in this country to spend more on the newest innovation to increase assets and production.

Look where that has gotten us.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here is a picture of an Ice Plow, as Mitch describes cutting deeper into the ice. We plowed here without a scribed line, and it is very difficult. The neither the scribe nor plow would do the job without the other.

I think it is a great piece, and looks like it would be easy to rebuild. I’m not sure you’ll get too rich, but someone would probably like it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

TBigLug;20733 wrote:

….. Hmm, maybe they’re looking for a dealer in my area…

That’s what I was thinking!!!:D

Carl

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