[Carl Russell]

I understand your position Andy, and in the best of worlds, I can see the logic.

As far as GMO’s go, I just come back to a statement that my uncle always attributed to his uncle…. and it had to do with the human endeavor in general, horses feet in specific, and not necessarily with GMO’s…but I always think it appropriate.

“Once you f**K around with nature, you have a full time job”.

We can do all kinds of things to save the world, but when we ignore, overlook, and try to bypass the natural processes, we create more work for ourselves… more leaks to plug… more problems to solve…. until all we are doing is solving problems, when we could have left well enough alone.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

jenjudkins;22502 wrote:

Horses are truly amazing creatures and so adaptable…..very humbling.

Have you had the vet out yet to have a look? One of my saddle horses has recurrent uveitis (moon blindness)….. We used alot of anti-inflammatories in the early years for flare-ups. …..

There are generally other symptoms with Uveitis, like tearing and photosensitivity, so this may not be what is affecting Kate. ….

…..The horse totally relied on the man’s focus and guidance to get over the jump.

Keep us posted, please.

Yes, my vet confirmed my observations, not only possibly chronic uveitis, with periodic weeping, but also looks like a cataract on the pupil as well.

We are just starting with Banamine to reduce inflammation.

I will try to work with treatments etc., but my main interest is in the functionality of a blind or sight-restricted horse. As I base my horsemanship on a strong relationship of communication and human guidance, her trust of me was never a question. However, I am now awestruck by the level that it has risen to.

Over the last year I have noticed that she overshoots the barn door when let in in the evening, but I just chalked it up to her possibly thinking about exploring other options. Two weeks ago I let her out of the pasture to walk to the barn. Ted trotted out of the gate, up the drive, into the lane to the barn, and into his stall. Kate wouldn’t cross the gate until I held her chin, then she walked right past the lane to the barn (on her now blind side), through a stack of pig food buckets, a patch of blackberries, and eventually into the barn and her stall. She obviously has some sight, as she can recognize that she is not where she wants to be, and to recover, so that she get where she wants to be.

Realizing now that the symptoms have been worsening over the last year or so, it is awe inspiring to think about the level of functionality that she allows me to guide her through.

Thanks for the feed-back. I am becoming inspired to rise to this new challenge…. logging with a blind horse….. now there’s a dance.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Rod;22465 wrote:

I have another photo but have used up my quota. How do I delete some old photos?

Rod, there are two ways to go about this.

1. Post your pictures in the photo gallery, then copy and paste them directly into the post. You can copy them directly from a Face Book, or other web based, album as well.

2. Go to your User CP (Control Panel), and click on Attachments, near the bottom of the list. This will show you all of the attachments that you have posted, and will allow you to delete any that you don’t want.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Although my post did mention dropping the lines, I was mostly iterating that if the horse won’t stand, I don’t hitch them. To rectify the situation I slow down, stopping clearly between the clear accomplishment of each command.

One of the ways that I help to clarify that communication to my animals is by completely dropping the lines. My point was to clearly eliminate any movement from the lines… if you don’t have to drop them to do that, that is fine… it just helps me to accomplish the long term goal of having horses that will stand IF I don’t have the lines in my hands.

This is not to say that it will solve any of what happened to Larry and his horse, but when I have had this happen, it became clear to me that it was because my horse had not had a clear understanding of what I expected…. and that was because I didn’t have a clear understanding of what I expected…. and therefore I had not communicated it clearly to the horse.

We have incredible mental ability to imagine a whole series of events in our minds, and as we are working to accomplish them we can have the tendency to flow through the scenario without stopping. There definitely is a point where a working relationship with an animal can be seamless, and extremely subtle, but if that relationship is not that in tune, then we need to remember to break down the flow into steps that can be accomplished one at a time. Drive the horse forward. Whoa, stand for a few moments. Haw around. Whoa, stand for a few more seconds. Back a few steps. Whoa, stand for a different amount of time than before…. Back more steps this time… Whoa, stand for a long time this time. Forward…. Whoa, stand, etc.

What can lead to problems is if we get into a routine of driving the horse up to the log, turning the same way, hitching the chain as fast as we can, and getting them started again before they start to move on their own…. I’m not suggesting this is what Larry is doing, I only use it as an illustration of habits that I have fallen into, and seen others do. This will lead to a horse who thinks they “know” what to do. What I want them to know how to do is execute the command I have just given them, period. Eventually we can put all the steps all together into a flowing dance, but I always lead.

Here are a couple of pics of how I set a choker and hook up. I often set the lines down to hook up, but usually I just lay them over my forearm as I have very little work to do because the choker is already set.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Mitch and all, the shut-down was the result of a breakdown in communication with the Domain Name host. I really appreciate what Mitch says about the importance of this forum. It seems like such an oxymoron, that we animal-powerists have such a relationship through the internet. Yet, as long as it lasts, I think DAP has made huge steps in enhancing the connections we all have to each other.

When I arrived at MOFGA LIF a few weeks ago, I was surrounded by friends, several whom I know personally, and several whom I had never seen before. Even the ones I am familiar with, I know better now because of DAP.

While I was there I received a call on my cell phone from Simon Lenihan, whom I met through DAP, calling to discuss details of the sale of harnesses that I had advertised here on DAP.

We are working our way through the process of forming a non-profit organization with significant help from a core group of people who have become attached to each other and the effort because of DAP. This forum will be a central component of the Draft Animal Power Network.

Rarely a week goes by that I don’t have some significant communication because of some connection I have made here.

I think about the communities that existed when my mentors were growing up. These were the men whom I learned from twenty-five years and more ago. These men grew up when horse-power was prevalent. They learned about horses as youngsters, dragging harness up into the mangers at 10 years old, and going to the woods, to make money with horses, cross-cut, and axes, as 13 year-olds.

That is a huge hurdle for us. Not only are many of us already adults when we dive into this, we are conditioned by a life experience that is mechanically automated, and we are few and far between. This site has significant value by allowing us the interaction, although mostly not hands-on, but certainly helping us to make connections around events like NEAPFD and LIF, that would have been part of those communities.

I/we intend to do everything we can to provide the security we need to keep DAP in a functional and vital role in this growing community.

Thanks for all of your support, it is exciting, and humbling, to be part of this movement, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Larry, glad to know things worked out for you.

I too have had that same experience, and to take him back to the woods was exactly right.

Although I agree that it is our responsibility to understand how our horses are acting, and to be sensitive to how that may affect our expectations, I always maintain at least a reasonable trajectory toward my original goal. I have found many times, that the nervousness can be overcome, and if not, it will become a regular habit for the horse as a way to get out of following my initiative.

I bought a mare 2o some odd years ago who had perfected that behavior with her previous owners. OMG, that was a lot of work, but I worked her for 21 years. Good old mare eventually.

Anyway, my only feedback has to do with your routine for working the animal in the woods. This is one of my biggest concerns with folks who are ground skidding logs with horses. There is a tendency to try to keep the lines in your hands while hitching logs, and I understand the logic to support that idea, but it sends mixed messages to our horses. If whoa means no contact, then what are they supposed to do if they feel the lines moving around behind them.

I train my animals to begin preparing to move as soon as they feel me handling the lines. They are alert, and when I am in production, I need to be alert too, as they are waiting for the slightest indication that I am ready.

However, when I say whoa, I completely release the line pressure, and that means STAND. When I am working with horses in the woods, if they are not consistently respecting this, then I don’t hook them. I work with them on standing quietly, consistently, because as you found out, that is the key to working safely in the woods.

It can be hard to break the habit, but try dropping the lines completely every time you stop the horse. I also have to sometimes work extra hard at delivering my commands in a way that gives the animal time to execute. Like taking a breath or two every time I say whoa, so the horse actually can practice standing quietly. I have to remember that they are not a machine, and they have to process every command. We can get into such a rhythm, and horses are great at learning rhythms, sometimes too good, to the point that they think they know what to expect next. As teamsters we need to be mindful of that, and mix it up, so they end up having to put a lot of energy into paying attention to us, because they are unsure what the expect next.

If nothing else, those are the things I do with a horse that is acting edgy. I start to mix it up, stay ahead of the horse, keep it guessing, make it realize that I am moving faster than it, and it needs to keep an eye on me if it wants to be a part of what I have going on. Which all leads back to some of the common problems of trying to work out the balance between working and training.

It sounds like you have it pretty well sorted out. Before you know it this will be a thing of the past.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Every day jobs, I will travel up to 45 min., but I will travel an hour or more for an occasion 1-2 days of work. I find a lot of work within 30 minutes from home.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Brookfield VT has one every year. I took a team back in 1999, and used my antique Ice Plow. It was fun. I’ld do it again… as long as the ice is thick enough:eek:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here are a few images from an article I wrote in SFJ back in the 90’s.

[Carl Russell]

Michael Colby;22356 wrote:

The lapse in service only made me realize further what a wonderful service this site is.

I’ll bet if you coordinated the lapse with a fundraiser you would have done very, very well….

Thanks again for being here.

Speaking of which :D:D, we are getting to that time of year anyway. Unfortunately we are working to rectify the “Donate Button” glitch, but we are always appreciative of checks sent directly to Carl Russell, Attn; Draft Animal Power.com, 341 MacIntosh Hill Rd. Randolph, VT 05060

Please feel free to make the contribution that you feel best represents the value you receive from this site.

Thank you, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Who did the drawings of the bobsled?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Okay. Back to business.:D

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Also, here is another link to a discussion forum on family milk cows. There may be some good allies on there.

http://familycow.proboards.com/index.cgi

Carl

[Carl Russell]

near horse;22311 wrote:

…….If it comes down to the “rights” of one group vs the “perceived” safety of consumers, you know where most legislators will place there vote. That’s not to say the rights aren’t an issue nor the benefit(s) from having a way for new small farmers to get in the game.

I don’t know about taking this approach, but one could make the argument that milk (even pasteurized) is not a “safe product” with the evidence being the number of illnesses resulting from consuming pasteurized milk. But in reality, no is meat or any food stuff is “completely safe”. There is always some risk in eating – and one variable is the consumer’s knowledge of proper handling and preparation.
……..

Geoff, you should take the time…. if interested… to go over the powerpoint presentation that I refer to above…. this is exactly what she covers… and it makes store bought milk look pretty questionable.

In VT Legislature we were able to use the “rights” argument to lead into the creation of a bill that laid out tiered regulation so that very small producers had limited requirements, while the larger producers were subjected to stiffer procedures to ensure public safety.

The public opinion is one thing, but the reality of the situation is that raw milk producers, and their customers have a much more informed relationship, and therefore the issue of safety is relative. The problem is that we have governing bodies that seem to believe they need to save us from ourselves… like making laws to require seat belts. But, the fact is that the purchase and sale understanding seems to be a good enough argument to prevent absolute banning of the sale of raw milk.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Erika, I will send you to a Powerpoint done by our friend Lindsay Harris..She was milking Clover at NEAPFD with you and Lisa…. She runs a small raw milk dairy, and put together a great presentation busting a lot of myths about raw milk….all with CDC’s own numbers.

Her farm website http://familycowfarmstand.intuitwebsites.com/ has many other awesome raw milk links. Go to the “About us and Videos” page and in a text box you find a downloadable(?) version of her Powerpoint presentation.

We fought this battle in the VT Sate Legislature a few years ago, and found that discussions about safety and disease are very scary to people, and while we can’t just let them get away with spreading scary untruths, we also found that we needed to concentrate as much on the rights of small farmers to be able to sell to customers who are seeking the product.

Lindsay’s PP shows how the numbers about diseases are blown out of proportion, but that potential risk issue is a hard one to beat.

I think farmers who are threatened by raw milk, are really threatened by farmers who have a real relationship with their customers. I would be pretty nervous if I was shipping huge quantities of milk every other day to an unseen, unknown mass of people, who were not ultimately buying my milk, but a mixture of milk from other farms as well.

Thanks for fighting the good fight, Carl

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