[Carl Russell]

Well Wolfgang, I’m not sure how important the numbers are. I usually just go by how the yoke fits…. I did measure my 9″ yoke during chores tonight. It is set up for my Normandes.

The bows are set at 17.5″ deep, from seat to bottom of the bows. The staple is set so the point of draft is at 11″ below the neck seat. Not quite 2/3 (.628)….

This setting rotates the yoke forward, and the cattle get much more lift with their neck. There is still an inch of adjustment to lower the staple if I need to… for bigger necks. This is a very old yoke… in really good shape, but this is a remnant from when cattle were worked regularly. I also built an 11″ based on this design for my Holsteins and it moved a lot of wood.

Just sayin’

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Scott G;25466 wrote:

I really like your method of securing the ends of the crosshaul line to the skids, Carl…… Moving the cross haul line with the skids makes a lot of sense. ……

Anybody else feeling philosphical with the coming of Mud Season or just plain stuck? :confused:

This does require extra long chains though, as the loop must be long enough so that the pull is more along the plane of the skids, not toward the center. If the loop is too short, the pull is transferred laterally instead of linearly, which will pull the skids together until the log puts enough weight on them to hold them in place.

I have found enough benefit from working out these details that even though things don’t always go smoothly, the end result is less work for me, more work done by the animals to benefit me.

No mud season here yet… rain and thaw, today, snow and sub-frozen tomorrow with another 8-12″ of snow on top of the nearly 2′ still on the ground.

I have said before that I am invigorated by physical work, but the real reason is because when I put the stress on my body, I generally find I start working with the brain.:eek::D

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Tim Harrigan;25472 wrote:

Rotation of the yoke is affected by the line of draft as well as the depth of the yoke. A higher hitch point as with a wagon or a long tow chain on a sled will cause less rotation, and that will be accentuated by less belly in the yoke.

I agree, and that is why more modern yokes reflect the interests of pullers to hitch near the ground at the heels, thus shallower depth to the yoke. Older yokes had more belly, deeper draft, so that when using sleds and wagons the yoke would rotate more for better seat.

That is why I also like a staple that slides up and down through the yoke so that the draft point can be adjusted based on the angle of draft.

Wolfgang, I’m a bit confused about the 1/3-1/2 . If that is the way you have it set, and the yoke is rotating back, sliding back onto the top of the shoulder, then it seems to me, making it more like 1/2-2/3 would give you the rotation you want.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

My experience with the depth of draft would suggest the deeper draft, the more the yoke rotates forward. This is supposed to make the yoke stay forward on the neck so that the animals can lift more with the neck, as apposed to having it slide back against the shoulder.

In your description you say the yoke is rotated forward now. I am not sure dropping it deeper will change that, although I do think the deeper draft will probably be beneficial.

I think the rule of thumb is that the draft should be about 2/3 the distance from neck seat to bottom of the bow.

This is a problem I have with modern yoke makers…. the fixed draft ring. I use yokes (several self-made, not just antiques) with staples in them, so that I can raise and lower the draft with shims to find the sweet spot for a particular team….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Before this thread slips away, I just wanted to write that the chain on the end of the skid system really comes in handy when piling logs on a landing. That way there are no chains to pull out form under logs.

I have rolled tree length logs such as red pine utility poles, and white pines with several logs in them up on a pile before bucking. I had a landing with an incline to roadside where the truck could load. I would pull in the stick, set the skids, slip the chain loop under, take the team to the other side, hook to the parbuckle, and roll them up. Not as much peavey work, and the skids are easily set higher as the pile grows.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Mark Cowdrey;25442 wrote:

Carl,
Thanks for your clear description. The part about running the chain over the end so the log comes off the skid sounds key. It is info like that that can make the difference between success or not for someone trying it for the first time.

In my limited experience what one tries w their horse(s) has a large component of self confidence. …..

Although I have learned a lot from reading, watching others, and listening to mentors, there is a lot I have learned explicitly from trial and error. This is one example. I figured this out after I had a big-ass yellow birch log perched at the edge of a load, and had to back the critters off to let it down, when it fell off the skids and under the truck……

“Failure is no excuse for success” .

As much information as I may be able to share, let my most important message be “Try it, learn from it, improve on it”. Don’t let uncertainty limit your potential.

Let Ronnie’s pictures serve as inspiration to try something you haven’t yet. Rather than thinking about how to make animals pay for powerful machines and technology, think about how it can be done with live power, and “TRY IT”.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I cut a groove around the skid near the end then wrap my 5/16″ load chain around it there. The groove helps to keep the chain from slipping as the skids are typically only 3-4″ dia…. tough for a chain to choke tightly. I put the choke on the bottom side of the skid, then run the chain up over the end, then down to the log, this way the chain will make the log roll off of the end of the skid, instead of coming to a stop just inches from the end of the skid.

I also flatten the top end and cut a flat taper on the lower end to prevent the skid from rolling.

Yes…. a bit of all of that. Eye-ball it. Try it. Adjust if needed… after a few logs at a certain loading area, the eye gets adjusted. Then main thing is to have the animal, or animals, calm and responsive. It can require some effort on their part, but you don’t need them hell bent for leather.

Like I have said many times before…. “Logging isn’t just about skidding logs with horses, it’s about working horses in the woods”.

Loading logs like this is another example of the purpose for having handy working animals. To make logging successful with animals, you need to have the animals do the work. Maneuvers like this can make all the difference.

I have spoken to, and watched, a lot of horse-loggers who have determined their animals are limited in performance to certain middle of the road logging exercises. This work that Ronnie has demonstrated here is not novelty, it is the back-bone of traditional effective use of animal power in the woods (anywhere for that matter).

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I use a clevis at the evener, the swivel, a clevis, and a bitch link. It is a bit long, but easy to pick up, easy to hitch, and swivels very well. I bought a bunch of these swivels last year with the expectation that I would cut one eye, and weld in the bitch link, then cut off the other and weld a clevis on there….. needless to say…. haven’t gotten to it yet. I’ll post pics when I do.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Ronnie Tucker;25412 wrote:

……maybe some winter to get away fromthe cold and snow you can come and see how i do it. ronnie

Sounds good to me!!:D

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I also wanted to mention that I use 12’long skids to roll the logs up.

I have taken to attaching my parbuckle chains directly to the upper end of the skid. This helps to keep the skid in place by putting back-pressure on the skid as the log pushes against it on its way up.

Like Ronnie I use a loop of chain, with a single chain going to the pulling animals. This way I can move the hitch point to the place where the log rolls evenly up the skids.

Also by having the parbuckle attached to the end of the skid makes it so as soon as the log is on the wagon the forward pressure stops. Another way I do this sometimes is to chain directly to the bunk, which can help to lift the log onto the bunk, but will also act to stop the log. The problem is when you get up a tier, you need to move the chain attachment location up so that the log will roll up there.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I have a smaller frame auto-steer wagon that I use for logs like Ronnie does. There are several reasons why I prefer it over the fifth wheel style.

First, on un-even slope, they are much more stable, keeping the wheels squarely under the load. Fifth wheel turning moves the balance in under the load and can become pretty tippy.

Second, going downhill the pushing load is forced to follow the angle of the front wheels, while a fifth wheel wagon can jack-knife with the load heading straight down the hill at the angle of the rear wheels.

As Ronnie says, they are not as easy to maneuver around the woods because they can’t turn quite as sharply, but I just take that into consideration when I use it.

I tend to use it moving logs from a staging area over long distances, so there is more open area to turn the rig around. Most often I use it to bring logs home from a nearby job, or some other reason to haul them down the town road… more apt to use a sled in the woods for stability. I brought 350bf of spruce logs home from a job 3 miles away, up a big hill, and down the other side.

One other problem with auto steer is they don’t tend to track as smoothly as the fifth wheel type though, swaying a bit, but very little pole slap.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I get mine at the local hardware store… I have gotten them at the construction supply warehouse …..

I found this link…. China suppliers here

Here’s one for Ace Hardware… here

Carl

[Carl Russell]

There have been several threads here covering that subject.

HOWIE???

Here is a link to one good one..http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=833&highlight=working+milking+cows

Carl

[Carl Russell]

mink;25369 wrote:

thats one hell of a load of wood he managed to get up there. i could see myself trying that , id be like oh no ….oh no….get the hell out of the way:p

Mink, ask Ronnie if he has ever had one slide off sideways, or roll over the other side….. You have to start somewhere, and practice.

I used an old 1949 GMC 3ton flatbed, and would load 1-1500 bf on there, all with a parbuckle. Once you get the hang of it, it can work well, but there is a learning curve to everything.

The best part is that it is inexpensive, and it works.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Awesome Chickade. Is that an Organic Couch Potato ???:eek::D

Nice to learn about your trajectory. Your farsightedness is admirable.

There is no laughing at serious study here. Draft mini-goats will do a fair amount of work I’m sure.

Good luck, and welcome, Carl

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