[Carl Russell]

Tyler Fournier;26579 wrote:

I should have mentioned that overall, I am off to a great start with Coconut, and that is thanks to Mike’s help. Considering I knew nothing about horses 3 months ago, let alone driving, the fact that I can harness Coconut and drive her through our field is quite an accomplishment in itself. So, thanks Mike, for an awesome horse and a willingness to help. I’m having lots of fun with the whole process.

Tyler

Tyler, thanks for that background.

One thing to try to wrap your brain around is how much you are actually consuming as you travel along this learning curve.

You have made huge strides. Try to take some time to appreciate that.

It can be really easy to get caught up in enthusiasm, and one can propel themselves further ahead than they are prepared for.

Rather than thinking that the mare is testing you, try to think of her asking you if this is what you really want her to do? Or maybe she is trying something because she is feeling a lack of direction from you. She is probably used to Michael giving her more guidance, and she may be just a bit confused by unintentional mixed messages from you.

That first stage that you have come through, harnessing etc., is very technical… this whatcha ma dingy goes here, that goes there….. To some degree driving can also be very technical, but there are also many subtle undertones that require more cerebral activity.

Trying to drive the horse straight is a perfect example. You may be thinking that you have an intention to drive her straight, but she may be picking up on uncertainty from you pertaining to “WHY” you are driving her straight.

I may be reading much more into this, but it has been going around in my mind since I read this post, so please bare with me as I explain it…. it may or not be valuable to you.

I like to plan out a series of exercises when going through this stage. Obviously, at this point I have so many work related enterprises that I just go out with my mind set on the task at hand and guide the horse through it.

However, I don’t think that it sounds like you are really at a place where you should be taking on significant work projects, so I would set up an exercise program that mimics a working situation.

You don’t need to pretend you are plowing or whatever, just set out into the field with blocks of wood to drive around. Set your sights on a tree in the hedgerow and drive toward it, to a predetermined location before YOU direct her to something else. Turn and walk parallel to the stonewall. Back her through the bar-way. Stop and stand for 5 minutes by the big rock, while adjusting some piece of her harness. Etc.

This may seem a bit mundane, but it is very hard to master direction and technical skills at the same time, so if you set up a course that requires very little thought on your part, then you can have the confidence to direct her through it. AND it won’t be as much about the technical aspects as it will be about her learning to follow your leadership.

It really doesn’t matter how simplistic your direction may seem to the aspiring horse-farmer, what matters is that you set an intention, and you helped her to follow your direction to complete it. Once the two of you find effective communication, then you can begin to master more complex tasks that require more thought from you. By then you will have the free space in your mind to undertake both tasks because the foundation for communication will be solidly in place.

As I said, I may be reading more into this than is correct, but I remember my own endeavor ( I picked up the lines, kissed at him, and he turned right around to face me:eek:), and I have witnessed several others going through the same thing.

There is a real tendency to avoid simple and try to challenge ourselves toward complicated. It is hard to be patient sometimes, and sometimes it is even harder to see the value in kindergarten exercises, but even the most experienced of us have to keep that stuff in our bag of tricks.

Be patient. Feel the reward for what you have accomplished. Keep it simple. Think about it as a conversation with a foreigner, and when you find a place where the communication is breaking down, go back to what you know you both can agree on.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Tyler, it is interesting, I was thinking about letting you know about the GMDHA driving clinic. I was talking to Jean Cross, the organizer, yesterday and it made me think that you might find it worth your while…. now with this post it seems more important. Here is a link to the sign up on their website http://www.greenmountaindraft.org/

As far as the problem, the bracketing works great. I also wonder by your description, are you keeping pressure on both sides of the mouth? Even though the objective is to have little or no pressure ON the bit, you still need to have equal pressure on both sides.

I like to describe it as light as a feather and hard as a rock. There is a sweet spot between these two extremes. You have to be able to be soft as a reward, but you also have to be firm when the horse starts to put more pressure than you want.

A good exercise for driving straight is to visualize a rectangle, with your shoulders parallel to the bit as the short sides, and the reins as the long sides. Move that rectangle around in front of you, keeping all sides parallel. When you turn the horse, step in the opposite direction. In other words, don’t change pressure by pulling with one arm, step to the right which will change the orientation of your shoulders in relation to the bit, and the horse will have to change the position of its body, heading to the left, to realign itself with the bit, and your shoulders.

If the horse tries to turn her head without your direction, hold the rectangle firm, and she will have to go straight.

It is a little tricky to master at first, but try to make sure that every time you turn her, you step out of the current line first. After a while it will feel natural to both you and the horse.

Another good thing to remember is that if she is having a difficult time continuing straight, and continues to challenge you….. stop trying to make her go straight. you will only be teaching her how to disregard your direction if you turn it into a struggle to see how long she will walk straight. Drive her in figure 8’s, around in circles, back and forth, never in a straight line.

She needs to know that the lines are your way of communicationg with her… important messages. She should not learn that the reins are for you to attempt to restrict her. If she does, she will learn to fight them. Find some driving exercises where she HAS to follow your direction. Make sure to throw in Whoa(Stand), and Back too. Rather than using the lines to drive her, find ways to use the lines to communicate to her. Pressure for direction and correction, release for reward.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Geoff, if the emails are already attached to another forum, or category, I just copy and paste them. In that case if I want to erase a few, I do, and if I need to add a few, I do. Otherwise it is one at a time.

To do this I often will open more than one tab on my server window so that I can have access to different forums or other displays while working on the one I want to change.

In the case of this Forum (Category), the email list of all board members will receive notification of any post or thread posted on any forum or subforum, so they do not need to be copied into each forum template.

If you want to set up forums and subforums to just notify a subset, like communications committee, then the email notification for the Category must be erased and individual email lists created for each specific forum or subforum.

My brain hurt, just writing that.:eek::D

Carl

[Carl Russell]

As far as e-mailing sensitive info, if you attach a word doc to your email with the passwords or logins, etc. instead of putting it in the content, it will be much more secure…. at least as far as I understand it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Carl Russell;26395 wrote:

Sorry Geoff,:eek: your e-mail wasn’t in the user group when I copied them over.:o

You should get an email about this post.:D

Carl

Well I guess it was, I just must have slipped and dropped it by mistake.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

near horse;26393 wrote:

Me not get invited:(

Sorry Geoff,:eek: your e-mail wasn’t in the user group when I copied them over.:o

You should get an email about this post.:D

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Does’ Leap;26228 wrote:

Does anyone have good sense how long it takes to block and split a chord of wood? I have sold a little firewood for $80 / chord, log length and for $250 split. I have never really timed myself and would like to know what the labor return is for the extra step of blocking and splitting.

George

Generally about 2-3 hours by myself with saw and woodsplitter. I can’t get $250/cd split, but $200-225 pretty easy. I figure about $50/hr, but I’m using both pieces of equipment the whole time, so I guess it is pretty reasonable.

However if you look at the landing value of $75-80/cd, and use the conversion 2cd/MBF, then we’re cutting and skidding at $150-160/MBF (not including stumpage) which is a losing proposition, even for skidder operators.

The money is definitely in the processing.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Yes Jay, that is right. I too use any opportunity with my animals to advance constructive communication.

I had a mentor who used to say “Don’t make over your horses”. He didn’t mean that you couldn’t be kind or caring, just not cooing and all “jelly belly”, because that just is not leadership behavior.

It may seem like a lot, to pay attention to your approach and demeanor at all times, but it goes a long way to successful leadership.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jason, and others, Bob St. Peter, the founder of the Independent Food Project which sponsored those resolutions, may be the Keynote speaker at Rural Vermont’s annual meeting May 4th, 6:30-9 pm at the West Monitor Barn in Richmond, Vermont.

We are very interested in seeing how we can also try to keep the ball rolling here in Vermont.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I skid as much wood as I can in the winter, downhill, on a sled to get the most efficient use out of the animals. Even use the sled during the summer.

I prefer to block the wood while the horses rest. Saves having to roll the logs up. Even if you are using a tractor it’s added energy and time. Also I abhor cutting blocks off of piled wood.

I use a stick cut to length to measure each block. Sometimes I will carry it while cutting, but the fastest is to mark out the blocks with a crayon. (Efficiency also comes in consistency of block size.)

I will start at my left hand end of the log with the saw. If the log was just skidded in I roll it away from any next to it, and if it is on a pile I roll it off and away. I leave the peavey at the opposite end from where I start to cut. I cut 3/4 of the way through, keeping the saw away from dirt and ground. When I get down to the end with the peavey, I roll the log over and work back the other way clipping the remaining wood in each cut.

If I am splitting by hand I don’t move any blocks and just start splitting by straddling the blocks and using the row of block as ballast against the force of my maul. Some blocks I may need to stand upright, but most of the time they split pretty well just laying on their sides between my feet. Sometimes I place a foot on them and split below my foot. I use a 6# maul. Same one since I was 15:eek:.

If I don’t split them, I stack the blocks until sometime later when I come in with the splitter. I use tongs instead of pulp hook. Much better grabbers. I can easily grab a block 50# or better with one hand and swing it up on the splitter.

I know that the work of blocking and splitting will interrupt, and add time to, the harvesting work with the horses, but over the years I have found that it helps with space and time management, and allows the horses to rest (especially if they have been hauling big loads).

Blocking the way I do allows me to use the saw to its best advantage, cutting at high RPM, and keeps the saw sharper longer. Also I can cut down on the number of times I handle the wood by blocking rather than piling logs.

I split into piles, or into the truck, then throw the wood down hatches into the basements in both houses. I generally stack the wood in the basement between other things, or my kids stack it when they want something from me.

The other thing I have found about doing more of the processing while harvesting is that each step is easier. It breaks up the monotony. Blocking or splitting for hours is exhausting to me, but a few minutes here or there, or an hour at a time makes it all seem easier to me.

We burn about 12 cords between two houses. We use a large chunk stove in our place, and we have a Yukon wood/oil combo forced hot air furnace in my mother’s place….that is one awesome unit… put it in during 1970’s and rebuilt the firebox in 2009. Very good furnace.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Also there is a problem in the interpretation of the law cited by Matt by VAA. The law was intended to do just as Matt interpreted, but according to VAA it doesn’t jive with federal meat inspection policy, which dictates what VT can do. There is some debate over a person who contracts with me to raise and slaughter an animal can actually be exempt as well under the owner/ICS exemption.

In the real world, where reasonable intelligent people live and work in communities, it makes all the sense to be able to make a contractual agreement and to expect the terms to stand up. The limitation comes from the link between the VT laws and the Federal laws.

It is another affront to us that we cannot continue a human society tradition. Even if we are successful, which we were with the current VT law, at making reasonable policy changes here at the state level, it is all trumped by federal meat inspection law.

I feel like it is coming to a point where we just need to do what we know is right, and what we know we have the rights to do in community with our neighbors. The legislative process is rife with compromises that basically tie up huge amounts of time and money, with little or nothing to show.

Like Erik says, I know folks(;)) who can get 20-30% more per pound for on-farm slaughtered meat sold directly to customers, than my friends who raise enough animals to be able to afford the slaughter/inspection pipeline. They also believe firmly in their right to farm and do business on their own terms (as long as they are not hurting others:)).

The question in my mind, is how do we as a community find a way to support these people so that the potential legal actions can be covered financially, and at the same time are used to make the change that logic requires?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Tim Harrigan;26083 wrote:

In some ways I always welcome and am thankful for these “set-backs” because they reveal gaps in my understanding of how complete our communication is as a team. …… So a set-back is not really a set-back, it is just a bend in a winding road and an opportunity to become a more proficient leader.

Thanks Tim, this is a big part of what I was getting at…. it isn’t the animals that take the step back it is us, so we need to constantly exercise that humble bone, be open to what the animals are telling us about what we are not telling them… After all they are only doing what they think they are being told to do.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

So it seems like this thread is the most appropriate place to post.

Four years ago I had never used the internet for anything. When David Fisher suggested that we consider creating a discussion forum for draft animal power, I had no idea what that meant on one hand, and no idea where it would go on the other hand.

Now a little over three years later this is what we have created… together. Now DAP.com is the centerpiece of the newly formed DAPNet, with over 3000 user members.

I have been really inspired by the growth of this community. I have also really enjoyed being at the helm of this site, performing administration, and moderating. As many of you are aware I have spent a lot of time here not just as administrator, but participating as well.

With the development of DAPNet, we are looking forward to sharing responsibilities with other people.

Recently Geoff Pritchard (near horse) has started taking over administration of this site. I will stay on for a while to give him assistance, but I am also looking forward to getting back to the lifestyle where I actually don’t HAVE to go on-line everyday. No doubt I will be visiting regularly anyway

Anyway, from now on start to think of Geoff when you have questions or need assistance. I expect he will make a post soon.

Thank you all for a wonderful time.

Love you all, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jason, I saw this post in the other thread also. It seems like a very interesting project. I have a lot of thought about this stuff, but I’m currently finishing some deadline work and will try to get back to this over the weekend.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Brad, I have worked with teams like this for years. There are really two things going on here in my mind. One is the difference, and possibly the dynamic between the two horses, and the other is the behavior of each individual horse.

I have found many times that when I have a balky horse, or an impatient horse, it often comes down to me asking too much. It is easy to do with all the work we have to do…. we need to hook them up and go. I have found it very helpful to step back. I have a saying “If you’re in a hurry with a horse, you’re two months too late”.

The horse that is balky needs a chance to build his confidence… slowly. The horse that is impatient shouldn’t be hitched until he will stand patiently. Neither of these activities gets many logs out today, but they will get a whole lot more out next winter.

My observation is that both of your horses are calm. They are both willing workers, very attentive and responsive. I have no doubt that you could have the team you desire.

Just for the record, I have never passed on a challenge from a horse. I have buried every horse I have owned. Each horse I buy is better than the last one, and truthfully, I don’t think it is because I have a better eye when buying.

This is not to say that you won’t find a better team that will take less of your time right now. This is certainly a personal choice. One that many people make with good results also.

Carl

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