[Carl Russell]

This is the type of ongoing outreach work that I think we should assign to our administrator. Carl

[Carl Russell]

The link is in the bar under the header. It is under Draft Animal Power Network. I just contacted Ed Rooney of VT Web Properties last week and passed along some suggestions about the header, etc, including more visible reference to NEAPFD. I also told hm I would pass along his contact (admin(at)vtwebproperties.com) to Jennifer and Geoff so that you three can start to work these things out.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Donn, as you suggest, it is simply a matter of putting some pressure on the collar and telling them to back. I will first start out by using the lines to get them to lean back just a bit. They are not stepping back, just putting back pressure on the britchen. It is one of those partnership maneuvers, where they learn how to do their part.

I will often ask a horse to back, just with voice command when working. In the woods, sometimes I have my hands full, and I need an extra link on a choker, or they have leaned forward for a snack, and I need them to step back to be hitched. Sometimes when putting a pin into a drawbar on my forecart I need them to back while I am hold the tongue in one hand and the pin in the other. Sometimes when rolling a log onto a sled, I need them to realign with my position, and I will ask them to back up while I stand holding the peavey and leaning against the log to keep it in place.

Backing by voice command is something I work on regularly.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@LStone 28109 wrote:

Hi Carl,
So the term “nose to nose” loosly translated does that mean using a pole? …..

If that is the case would it be safe to assume that you have to drive differently in turns depending on the type of yoke used? The reason I ask is that every time I use a single piece yoke the horses are not my own horses, and I seem to struggle a little bit driving around turns. …

By nose to nose I meant like in a horse race, both horses moving with heads even…. like headlights on the front on a car.

I think the “difficulty” you are experiencing has to do with the horses not being able to shift their position to easily make the turn in relation to the changing pressure on the bits. When you apply pressure to one side of a double line the inside of the of the outside horse gets more pressure and that animal will settle back a bit, as the inside horse will, or should, surge forward. This is because the lines are not immobile, and will sway off toward the direction of the turn. The other part is the pressure applied to control the degree, or speed of the sideways motion, the pressure on the off-side line. This will also act to hold the off-side horse back a portion of a step.

With a stiff neck yoke, the horses are held even with each other, and the lines and harnesses are working against each other. With a jockey neck yoke, the horses can move ahead and backward easily in conjunction with the evener.

As I said before there are some times when I might ask a horse to back up while turning their direction, Back-Gee for example, but most times when I am turning horses, even in tight quarters in the woods, where a “sweep” might seem the right choice, I ask the inside horse to step up. It helps them cross over their hind feet, and it helps me to have adequate pressure on the off-side horse to control the speed of the maneuver.

By the way, I define a sweep and the horses stepping over directly…..ie. one wheel on the cart stays still while the other moves forward.

A few other thoughts came to mind about hitching the traces tight on a D-ring harness. Most of the time the issue is brought up as it relates to pole height. There may be some need to make the hitch REALLY tight with the intention to get the pole as high as possible. There may be other factors involved. If the angle of the front trace is off, or the front trace is too long, or the jack saddle strap is too long, the D-ring may be too low. Likewise if the front side strap is too long, or the neck yoke is too long, or the pole is too long, the tension between neck yoke and evener may seem to need to be much more to get the pole height correct.

I do hitch my traces tight, but not so tight as to create a difficulty. My front traces are short, the collar angle is aligned with the jack saddle strap, and my d-rings are in a high position. My poles are as short as possible, as are my front side straps, and my neck yokes, therefore when I hitch up my traces, I don’t have to work that hard to get them tight enough to suspend the pole from the jack saddle at the appropriate height. As George has mentioned and shown in his threads, the Plug Yoke can be a huge advantage in this regard.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Mark Cowdrey 28102 wrote:

……
While I don’t doubt that leaving your near side front side strap(FSS) (from the D-ring to the jockey yoke) on your near horse (left & left) adjusted in its “hitched” position while hooking to an implement is doable, particularly for some one who is rugged, I believe that George’s method is easier (takes less strength) for a couple of reasons.
…

I should really let this go. I really don’t care how anybody hitches their horses.

But I got to say, that I haven’t been straining myself every time I hitched my horses for the last 25 years. I may be big, and rugged, but my way is way more easy than the FSS method.

I am actually using the strongest muscle in my body, which translates to less effort. I do not “pull” on any thing. I do not have to lift anything.

After I have hitched the two inner traces, and the off-side trace, I reach up with my left hand to grab the last trace, I tug backward on it, telling the horse to back. As he leans back, I place the end of the singletree on my thigh and lean forward. The horse is actually applying the most power. I can easily compress the hitch several inches beyond the point I need to hook.

I double guaran-damn-tee you it is way more easy than walking up to the front of the horse, then applying the power with fingers and forearms, not to mention the extra time.

Once I have the trace hitched, all I need to do is reach out to the lines, and off I go.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Dude:cool:, THAT’S what I’m talking about…

Nice job Tim.

I really think this is the next wave of DAPNet using the web to advance our sharing.

Thanks again Tim.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@FredNH 28097 wrote:

“The straight yoke is made for people who think that horses should sweep, or step sideways, whenever they are turning.”

Carl,

Would the straight yoke be good for helping train a team to sweep? Mine have a tendency to always want to walk forward as they turn, sometimes I just want them to side step to get around something i.e. stump or rock.

Fred

I hear you Fred, but it really helps the horse sidestep if they still have SOME forward motion, especially the inside horse, as it allows them to cross over with the hind feet. Even sweeping, I usually ask the inside horse to step up.

I bought a sled once that came with a straight neckyoke. I tried it, and I just think it has no value. It might HELP as you say, keeping them even, but I think it offers more problems than benefits.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I agree with Donn. The straight neck yoke should be used for firewood. Unless the horses are walking nose to nose at all times, that style yoke will restrict their free movement. This is particularly true when turning corners, when the inside horse wants to be stepping up, especially when pulling a load. The straight yoke is made for people who think that horses should sweep, or step sideways, whenever they are turning.

As far as tightening a D-ring harness, it is a simple matter of pushing against the single-tree with your knee as you pull back on the trace. You should also be able to get the horses to step, or lean, back as you do this. When you push forward on the singletree, the pole will rise even if the piece you are attaching to doesn’t. I use this method when hooking to a fully loaded sled, and have no problem at all getting the traces their tightest.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Tyler Fournier 28001 wrote:

I don’t mean to hijack this thread, but could you elaborate on this point specifically? What are some examples of situations you are looking out for, anticipating, etc., and what are your planned responses to them?

Tyler

Tyler, it is not so much that I look to create any specific opportunities, it’s just that in the parades that I have been to, there just ISN’T any way to stop the horses out of the way, out of the excitement, no way to tie them off to something, and as Jenn pointed out, no really good way to regroup.

When I am working, the list starts at behavior of the horses, the ability to stop and stand calmly. It has to do with equipment, sound and solid. It has to do with knowing the landscape, and thinking of places where I will be able to unhitch and tie off, if I need to. But in a big way, it is just in my mind that I am constantly looking for ways that I can support my animals IF for some reason I need to stop what I’m doing and attend to something I could never have predicted would happen.

That is not to say that every day isn’t filled with potentially very dangerous enterprises. I always say that safety is a function of the degree of risk you are willing to take. In the case of our local parade, the degree of risk is way too much for me. When I’m in the woods and fields of my farm, some might say I encounter daily risks that would scare them shitless. At least out here I have control over many of the external factors, so I am more comfortable leading my animals into risky situations.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Kewl!! That looks like a parade worth doing.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@near horse 27988 wrote:

Thanks Donn,

One thing that is the real challenge for me is my one field is almost a right triangle – some of those corners are tough. But now I have a new question regarding raking with a side rake – when you turn, since the front wheels are fixed and the rears pivot, there seems to be a lot of side draft on the front wheels. One of my neighbors suggested instead of doing the right turns as normal, you actually turn to the left and loop around to make the corner. Any thoughts?

Geoff, this is the turn I was going to suggest to you. I found it much smoother than stopping forward motion and stepping to the right. When done right, I would just mow through the triangle corner, step on the pedal, swing to the left, and drop the bar back into the grass.

I also used the same turn with the rake. I found it very easy to realign the windrows. You usually just end up with dead-end windrows… really not a big deal, and smoother all around.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Mark Cowdrey 27991 wrote:

Erika brought up a while ago the issue of having our named stuff, esp. Northeast Animal-powered Field Days, NEAPFD, DAPNet, etc copyrighted or trademarked. What do others think? We want to be fortified against a hostile takeover should such an attempt come to pass, say, in mid to late August. If others think it is important/worthwhile, does anyone have experience and/or connections w an appropriate atty. for doing such?
Mark

I say it is a good idea. Regardless of the potential for take-overs, DAPNet should exercise its legal rights over its assets, including its name(s).

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I just want to reiterate that I don’t see the problem resting with the horses. I have taken my horses to town, along route 12, with 18 wheelers, railroad tracks, etc. I have every expectation that mt horses can handle the stress of a parade, or any other situation, but my point was about MY responsibility as a teamster.

I feel that the result of taking my horses to town may be marginal, seeing as I have a truck to run errands, but there is conditioning and the items that I pick up to justify the expedition.

The reward from a parade is nil, in my mind. Everyone else gets LOVES seeing the horses, and I guess I’m supposed to take that to the bank, but IF something goes wrong, I’ll bet my bottom dollar those same people will be frantic about the misbehaving horses.

Also when I work my horses, I plan on ways that I can stop them in safe and secure way, so that I can address any unintended problems. At a parade with thousands of people standing 10 deep along the street, there is no safe place to go to.

I feel that it is unfair and disrespectful of me to disregard my end of the teamster relationship and subject my animals to the potential that I will not be able to substantiate the trust they have in me. They will follow me to the end of the earth BECAUSE they KNOW I will keep them safe.

I also admire horses and other animals that do parades. I just can’t find the value in it for me.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 27944 wrote:

I don’t have a moisture gauge, but we baled some greenish hay last week trying to beat the rain. It was only a couple hundred bales, so I turned them on end in the barn and salted them. I have been checking internal temperature with a probe thermometer and have no heating! Kristan questioned whether the salt on top of the bales was drawing in moisture from the atmosphere or drawing out moisture from the bale.

George

“Stack ’em cut side up, so the air can move upward and out of the stem as they het out.” From one farmer I worked for when I was young.

His other lesson was, “you have to make hay in the field, not in the barn”.

In this case it sounds like the hay was pretty much there, but hay that dries in the bale will get dusty even if it doesn’t get hot enough to burn.

The salt absorbs moisture from anywhere, air, and bale, but the way it is typically used is in layers between in the hay, so that it pulls mostly form the hay. If it is just scattered on top, it will probably get more from the air.

[Carl Russell]

@near horse 27911 wrote:

… it’s difficult to drop the cutter in at the right moment w/o snagging a bit of the previously cut material – plug. ANY POINTERS?…

I’ll ride the foot pedal and taper the cut back down, keeping the cutterbar just high enough so as not to catch the cut grass. You may find that if you raise the tips of the guards for that entry cut it won’t be as likely to snag.

Carl

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