[Carl Russell]

@Countymouse 31029 wrote:

…. The other potential confounder here is that although I know what time the chicken was killed (roughly), I didn’t find it until many hours later. So it’s possibly it was killed by one animal and another animal was eating on it before I found it. I have a few barn cats who might have been at it, although they are normally more interested in killing things than eating them. …..

So…. true to forensic TV now we have a plot reversal….

I woke up this morning thinking…. DOH.

I’m not actually trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be, but one of the reasons there have not been any other killings is that maybe there never was an attack. That may explain why you never heard much noise. This bird may have had some other reason why it died, and then it was a scavenger (barn cat) that came in and ate it where it was. That may have been enough to bother the flock to stay away.

The absence of feathers scattered around indicates either a surgical kill, which is highly unlikely in my experience, especially in a open space, or the bird died of its own accord without attack……..

Not being there I am starting to feel like Richard Castle drumming up a new plot for my next novel…… where is Nikki Heat when you need her…..:p(Netflix addiction :confused:)

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Conversely, I have found that since the pole pivots under the front bunk, if the evener pivots in front of the nose chains the angles will work against each other under load causing changes in pressure against the horse through harness.

The reason we hitch to the draw chain back under the bunks is so that the draft pull is against a strong portion of the runner, and under the load, as opposed to right angle pressure against the nose of the runner. So running the draw chain through the nose ring can actually creat too much lateral pull against the nose of the runner….. at least in my experience

George you only need 15º of movement on that pole. It really shouldn’t be allowed to create a sharp angle….. remember the horses need to be moving forward to have power while turning anyway, so while this will allow better turning of the scoot, yo really can’t expect the same maneuverability as with a bobsled.

I use a spread-chain to hitch to my sled runners instead of a single length of chain. It really doesn’t change the functionality, but I find it easier to hook to with my skidding set-up…. bitch-link. This way the evener actually sweeps with the pole as it pivots under the front bunk.

Also I prefer to have my evener on top of the pole, as if the pull lifts the pole under the front of the loaded logs it can get jammed against a log when trying to turn. I also like to hitch the evener close to the front of the load, giving better lift, and keeping pole length down, so I actually can’t hook the draw chain through the nose ring.

[IMG]http://www.draftanimalpower.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1028&d=1250183807[/IMG]

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Countymouse 31029 wrote:

….The other clue, actually, is that there hasn’t been another chicken loss. I was expecting a repeat offense. Maybe the additional vigilance was enough to ward off whatever this was. I have been watching this area pretty closely.

…and don’t forget the chalk mark outline…absolutely essential. BTW, I’m still standing by my weasel…:p (did that sound right??)

This is getting so far fetched…. I know nothing I say in this context can be taken seriously, as I am so far removed from the situation, BUT….

I am going to re-emphasize the Mink. I trapped 5 out of our chicken coop a few years ago. I was alerted to their presence only after a dead chicken was being fed on. I stuck it in the trap and caught one the next day. I thought it was the only one, so relaxed. A week later I watched my daughter go into the coop, and saw a Mink run out of the back side of the coop. I put the rest of the carcass in a trap and caught another one. I think I had to get some chicken livers out of the freezer, but eventually caught all five. Then the egg production rebounded. Even though they are vicious predators, they were actually bypassing the chickens except for the one that alerted me, and eating eggs.

As I said before, they also keep a larger range, and often are more relaxed because they find other food sources. Just because another bird hasn’t been killed doesn’t mean that Mink are not coming around.

Although Weasels are definitely chicken killers, in fact they are so unlikely to leave them alone that I am doubtful this was a Weasel. And don’t be fooled into thinking a dog can scare a Weasel away. If they aren’t coming around it is for some other reason.

Mink also are not afraid of dogs, and just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t around either. If you have a laying flock, you might evaluate whether you think they are laying up to snuff….. you may be feeding some Minks that just took advantage of a inattentive bird in the yard.

For what that is worth…..:rolleyes:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Mark Cowdrey 31017 wrote:

Brad,
Thanks for the added info on your saw selection process.Keep us posted on how it works out.
So, to follow up the .325 v 3/8 issue, I am guessing that fewer teeth per inch (W/the 3/8) translates into a less bogging/faster chain speed/faster cutting scenario?? Is that it?
Thanks,
Mark

No it is to keep things simple…. one file, and if the bar length is the same on each saw then the loops are interchangeable.

The smaller pitch chain has less resistance in the wood. If the only saw you are using is the .325 then that isn’t a problem. You can buy a larger sprocket for your saw to use 3/8 chain, but I always figured it wasn’t worth it. I just buy a box of smaller files.

As far a Husky vs. Jonsreds….. one is orange, one is black and red…… the Jonsreds saws are typically Husky saws that have been discontinued and put in a different cover. Brad’s new 2272 is probably the Husky 372. Both excellent saws.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@near horse 31010 wrote:

….. So it might need to be bigger than a weasel although I’ve never seen a weasel eating something that large.

We need to get some DNA samples back to the lab – stat. Andy?

Weasels more typically just tear the throat open to get the blood flow, but I have seen birds killed by Weasels that had skull and neck eaten.

We definitely need to revisit the forensic procedure here. Next time Andy tape of the area and we can all fly in for in-the-field investigation….:rolleyes:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Okay…… I can’t resist…. My first reaction, as recently mentioned by Geoff, is that I think it unlikely it was a bird.

Weasels and Mink are very likely to eat off the head and neck, as in this case. Weasels however are much less likely to eat much else. This is because they are very small and very active, so as Mike says they often kill more than one bird. They eat off the head because that is where there is spurting blood, which is actually what they eat. There is much more energy per minute in blood, and they are so vicious and such good killers that they will more successful at fulfilling themselves if they just go kill another and drink the blood, than if they take the time to gnaw on flesh.

Minks are more apt to eat more of the bird, as in this case. They also eat off the head for the blood meal, but their larger size makes them more confident and more apt to stay on the kill. They also will cover a larger range, like an Otter, and may not have killed more because they have moved on…. they may be back within two weeks of the original kill.

The only bird kill I ever saw that resembled this turned out to be a Skunk, also a Mustelid.

If it were me I would have taken some of the innards and put them in a Have-a-Heart, preferably the liver, by heart and lungs are bloody enough to attract a predator coming back to its kill.

I think that a Fox would carry the bird off. Raccoons kill for the blood meal too, but are much more nocturnal.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Tim Harrigan 30947 wrote:

…. So while some of these things may annoy you a little you might want to see it as contributing to the safety and well being of the team. You know it is a puddle and it is only 3 inches deep. They don’t know that for sure so they rely on their instincts. You do not want to suppress their instincts and natural behavior. You are all better off if you learn to read it, and don’t sweat the small stuff. …..

My last post does not mean that I disagree with this sentiment (We were posting at the same time, and I didn’t read Tim’s post until after I had posted).

If my steady, forward, confident team shies, or shows serious concern in response to my direction, then I know I have misread the situation, and will not force them. However, if once I have reappraised things, and know that there are no risks, they will be expected to follow my lead without hesitation.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

The only trick I can think of is to get a clear understanding of what you are actually expecting from them, then to be consistent in your leadership.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I personally am not interested in independent initiative from my draft animals. If I want/need them to step on/in something, then I work on the leadership to get them to follow my lead.

In the case of an animal that refuses to do that, I may be inclined to go back to halter training.

However, I am less likely to focus on the object, in this case the puddle, then I am to focus on the fact that the animal believes that it can assert its desire to shy.

Horses or steers, there are puddles in the woods, and they will be going through them….. without hesitation….. I do (rubber boots help;))

That being said, I don’t mind a moment to appraise the object, tilting of the head, slowing in gate, etc., but with my encouragement they should be trusting me enough to move forward…… if not, I believe I am missing something, and need to go back to basics.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I’m pretty sure you can get plans for the scoot from Les Barden or Tim Huppe. George, don’t you have plans you worked from?

Several points I will make.

The nose chains should be long enough so that they can be adjusted, allowing the ring (with pole in it) to move several inches to either side. 3/8″ chain is probably adequate, as it is large enough to easily accommodate the pin from a clevis, and there is no way it will break in that application. Get a long length of the desired size chain, then cut to the lengths that will work, rather than trying to make a certain length work.

Rings??? I have rings. There are rings in just about any barn in New England…… They shouldn’t be too hard to find, but if they need to be made, George’s description is good.

http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?2882-Scoot-hdw.-question&highlight=scoot+building

I thought George had posted pics of his scoot while building it????

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@bradley 30918 wrote:

I just want to say thanks to everybody who came to the Farm School last weekend. Thanks to Scott, Kevin and Ed for helping me get ready. Carl, Jen, and Jay for bringing their horses and Jean for setting it all up. I hope everybody had a good time because I know I did. Can’t wait to be out in the woods with all of you again.

I was very glad to participate….. nice place Brad. It is so nice to spend a few days working with such an awesome group.

Also thanks to everyone for all the great pics and videos.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@dominiquer60 30893 wrote:

…… I have been using a 455 Rancher for firewood, my biggest complaint is that it is too heavy for me. I am leaving it behind when I move, but will still need something for firewood, small work, etc.. So my options are to buy one or borrow one from my landlord. ….

There is a Jonsreds 2051 here that you can use. It is a very light and powerful saw. You really should go for a professional grade, especially when going down in size. One misconception about saws is that the weight is what makes you tire….. more often it is a chain that is not sharp, AND lacking power. The faster it cuts the less time you have to handle it.

The number one problem that you will need to address is starting. Some of the larger saws with compression release pull easier than the smaller saws. Also using a 16″ bar will make any saw easier to handle. I would say borrow one of my saws for a while before running out and buying something just for the sake of it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Welcome…. thanks for sharing.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Jen Judkins 30807 wrote:

No question, Carl…the different colors lines are probably not neccessary for an experienced team and teamster, having worked together in the woods daily for several decades.

However, try to imagine an inexperienced teamster or even a more seasoned teamster with a young or inexperienced horse in the woods. While hooking a log with a plan to start the load to the left, the horse suddenly decides to move off (distracted, spooked, anxious) to the right. You suddenly find yourself on the wrong side of the log. Being able to get to the left rein quickly (twisted or not) might save you from a very bad experience. I’m just sayin…

Oh Jen, I didn’t mean that the different colors wouldn’t be helpful to some folks…. all I said was that my mind doesn’t work that way….. I can see the logic… red line-right hand…. but I couldn’t pull that off…. I would have to remember all over- “red/right”, and the momentary focus would throw me off.

I was an inexperienced teamster having just the problems you describe. My solution was not to look at the lines but to look at the horse while grabbing the lines, and to work the lines with my hands until I could see and feel that I had the right lines in the right hand. In that way I satisfied my need to broaden my focus to address the many factors of the situation. If I take the time to figure out the reins, to focus on a small detail, my mind feels like it is missing vital information and gets rattled….. I think THEY call that ADD:confused:.

I truly would not remember which color was supposed to go in which hand. That has nothing to do with how valuable the modification may be to others whose minds operate differently.

Carl

Re-reading this post made me think of an exercise I used when I was just starting out….. I would attach my lines to the door/wall/couch/bedframe/whatever and when I was watching TV or hanging out I would just handle my lines… coil, uncoil, drop, pick up, twist, untwist….. handle, handle, handle. I found it really helped me get comfortable handling the lines themselves so that when something was attached to them, I wasn’t trying to get comfortable with the reins and the driving at the same time.

[Carl Russell]

@Scott G 30820 wrote:

Sounds as though it might be getting soggy back there??

Right now it is, but sounds fine for this weekend…… might actually stiffen up some :D.

Carl

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