[Carl Russell]

Boston Backer style, date unknown.

D-ring in Vermont circa 1941…… I think they miss the point….

[Carl Russell]

I found this article as I was digging. It post dates Mitch’s photo, and it doesn’t describe our D-ring harness, but it shows the type of deep thought that some were putting to the development of harnesses to make the use of horse-power efficient….. a little reminiscent of Andy 😉

Carl

http://www.militaryhorse.org/studies/artillery/yule.php

[Carl Russell]

I spoke to Les Barden today about this. He is unaware of any direct source for the origins of the D-ring harness. He guesses that it may have been developed between 1900-1930. He thinks it may have played on the Boston Belly Backer. We talked about looking for old hardware manufacturers who would have made the D-ring itself to put into the harness.

Andy, he was especially appreciative of your discussion about draft deflection pressure. There are several factors associated with the design of the D-ring harness that make it hard to believe that the original designer just stumbled on this by trying something. It is entirely likely that a very intelligent and thoughtful harness maker, or engineer (as horses were still the primary source of power) who took into consideration the inefficiencies and complications associated with fitting harnesses to live animals in the application of power. He may have never really gained any notoriety as the decline of the working horse combined with the somewhat complicated nature of the harnessing system.

One comment that Les made was that he remembers the harness on horses in the 1930’s, but doesn’t recall whether they were harnessed with any purposeful fitting. Over the years he says that he put a lot of thought into seeing the ways that the design could be applied, but that he has never yet met anyone who actually could give him any insight beyond what he determined by himself. This is not a comment about his own intellect as much as his observation that any significant knowledge about the correct adjustment of the harness basically was obsolete years ago.

I have some photos of other horses in the d-ring farming etc, an they may give more food for thought….. when I have another chance.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Here’s another from Calif. circa 1897

[Carl Russell]

Here is a picture of the Troy, NY Farmer’s Market from 1910. These horses would arrive about 5 am, and stand until 11 am. Good way to do business.

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 31697 wrote:

Carl:

…… What do you think about engaging just one chain irregardless of turning?

George

Sure, if one will do it, definitely only as much as needed to keep the sled from pushing them too much….. nothing wrong with them learning to hold the load back some too. I never needed to, but I suppose you could experiment with smaller gauge chain to provide some drag, but less drag.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 31665 wrote:

Mitch, thanks for the reply. I believe I’m hitched in nice and tight and that my britchen is positioned correctly (just bellow the pin bone). I thought about one long bridle chain, but I am concerned about it catching a stump or other stuff. My bridle chains are positioned about a foot or two behind my front bunk, just forward of the middle of the sled. John (aka Longview Farm) was here yesterday and we chained up the scoot for a couple of loads of hemlock and it wasn’t “walking” so badly, but man do they dig in and increase the draft on the intermittent flats between the steep sections. He also mentioned that Carl sometimes will use one bridle chain on his sled. I tried that and it seemed to work well – not to much draft, but enough to help hold back the load. I also thought about a few sections of 5/16 chain that I could attach with a clevis to my bridle chain u-brackets that might not bight as hard. Lots of learning to be done, but I am enjoying it.

George

Remember that the reason the scoot is such a good tool is that it makes moving large loads easy, so no need to take all the fun away. I use just enough bridle to slow the load from over-running the horses.

Sometimes on frozen ground and ice the chains will grab then slide, then grab again. They work best on ice. Frozen ground can be a lot like concrete.

Try to get the bridle chain to ride about 1/3 back under the load. Depending on the length of the loaded logs, the sled may teeter over a centrally located bridle chain, allowing the front part of the runner to over-ride the affect of the chain, also causing the herky-jerky-ness. 1/3 back keeps the chain in front of the weight, so you’ll have consistency.

I also disengage the chains on any section of the trail where they are not necessary, even short sections. The more work gravity does for me the less the horses need to do. That is one reason why having an easy disconnect mechanism is so important.

Also one bridle chain on the inside of a turn will help turn the sled….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 31514 wrote:

Interesting discussion and comments……..Andy, Just curious, at what theoretical point are you measuring the deflection? …

Thinking about the effect of deflection of draft at the point of the shoulder which can affect the balance of the horse as it lifts and moves forward, especially if that angle can change (not D-ring), versus deflection at a point behind the shoulder (low center of gravity) where the weight of the animal can easily sustain the additional lateral pressure, while the point of draft at the point is stable (D-ring) for consistent applied force, really drives home the creative thought behind the development of the D-ring harness. I believe the horses learn to use the D-ring harness to their advantage when moving weight, similarly to the way they learn to trust their footing when caulked up.

I can’t say anything bad about other styles, as Mitch says I never knew there were any other styles because the D-ring leaves very little to be desired.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Baystatetom 31398 wrote:

….. Anyway just to reiterate I think you should be sure there is somebody you can call on to unharness your team no matter what they are and put them in the barn for the night. If your really hurt at least you need the piece of mind knowing your co-workers are taken care of.
~Tom

Hate to even think of it…..

Hope you recover.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I just visited Les Barden yesterday in Farmington NH to review his innovative design for a lightweight bobsled. He is using 3″ hardwood runners with steel chairs and a walking beam design for the bunk. Using 3″ square tube as the bunk, he welded on 3″ round stock to the ends and set them into rounds welded on the top of the chairs. When pinned in place this will allow each runner to ride independently over the terrain.

Also with this set-up, the height to the top of the bunk will be only about 15″. Instead of the cumbersome and time consuming chaining method that I use on my sled, we worked out a prototype for a potentially simpler method. Welding flat grab hooks onto the top of the steel bunk we intend to create a way to attach the chain quickly (without threading it through a ring etc) to the bunk.

Our theory is to still use one chain for each side, but to run the choker end of the chain under all logs on one side, fixing the length by use of the welded grab, then run the other end of the chain over all of those logs. Then put the chain through the slip hook, and back toward center where each (side)chain can be bindered against the other, securing each half of the load back against the other, and centered on the bunk so that the load can be turned.

Les has also attached chains to the end of the bunk to be used in loading with a peavey, using a rolling lift with the peavey hook in one of the chain links.

This will not be a heavy duty sled for moving large loads of logs, but promises to be another opportunity for teamsters looking for light convenient technology to assist the effective application of their working animals.

I didn’t take any pics yet, but it will be here sometime this winter to get some practical testing, and there will be photos then.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Does’ Leap 31282 wrote:

Hey Ed:

Your scoot looks great. I am certainly not a scoot expert, but I suggest making up some scoot irons instead of pinning down through your runners. My scoot really takes a beating in the woods – riding up over rocks and small stumps, slamming into things etc – and I would be concerned about those pins working lose.

George

If the bunk pins are bent and countersunk into the bottom of the runner before the shoes are put on they will be as permanent as any other option. Using bunk irons as George suggests allows for the use of narrower runners to save weight and wood, but most scoots traditionally had pins that came all the way up through the runners. I have used this method, and found that most of the where actually occurs in the hole through the bunk, not on the runner.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Finally had the bandwidth to watch this in its entirety. Very nice. Lots of great stuff in there, from directional felling, to working cadence, to technical aspects of moving and stacking logs. Great educational film.

Oh yeah, and the relationship. What a comfortable and confident animal. A testament to you for sure. That is a huge piece in the equation of effective use of draft animals for farming and logging. When we possess beasts with that level of response and strength, we have existential power to accomplish our work. I can see you thinking about the work, going about the work, the methods, the techniques, but the connection between you and Will is so relaxed that he is just an extension of your own being. That makes the work fun, creative, expressive, fulfilling, and successful.

Thanks for sharing this. It is a great example. Something for us to work toward. There are a lot of folks who will benefit from watching this…… repeatedly:).

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@near horse 31221 wrote:

Merry Christmas to the DAPNet family. We used to make reindeer hoofprints using a stamp I’d carve out of a potato. Never tried to trap old Santa though.

Carl – it would have been funny if they caught something else in the Santa trap during the night. That was a pretty big trap.

BTW – where’s the snow in that picture? We don’t have any here either. Cold enough but no ppt.

Finally got a few inches….enough to make it white……still doesn’t feel quite like we’re already past the shortest day:eek:.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Admittedly this is from a few days ago when I was testing it out for them, but no they sleep a lot heavier than they boast. Santa ate almost all of their cookies with them sleeping only inches away, and they never moved (at least that’s what it seems like, because I wouldn’t know…. I was asleep right?)

Carl

[Carl Russell]

One of the difficulties with this situation. that we have been joking about since the beginning, is that we all have a virtual reality that we are experiencing here. We all have personal experiences with this sort of thing, and being completely disconnected from the actual event, we have nothing but our own perspective to bring to it. Details of each perspective are valid, yet out of context at the same time.

Admittedly I have no idea what killed this bird.

I do know however that owls tend to be much more interested in eating small rodents, something they can swallow whole, and that is the main reason they are found in barns. This is not to say they wouldn’t take a chicken, but I have a barn that I use that supports owls AND a large population of pigeons.

Andy, I will just throw out one more bit of insight about minks. If they are stealing eggs, while they may give passing interest to livers, the extra work to get them out of a cage may not be warranted, as they know they can get an easy egg meal. They also are not likely to use travel corridors that you would normally think of. They LOVE to travel in tunnels, or under foundations. If there is a hole, they almost cannot resist going through it. As important as it is to use a non-kill trap to protect domestic animals, placing a Body Trap like a Connabear 110 inside an entryway to such a tunnel may be more fruitful. You may have to look closely, and you may not want to believe that they can actually fit through the hole you find, but if there is anyway they can get close to the coop without going out into the open, I would experiment.

Carl

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