[Carl Russell]

@Livewater Farm 35563 wrote:

baler just sold this morning
Bill

Hey Bill it works great…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWMF9vaE1dw&list=UU9xzkRo7ALp993ssEkj2z-w&index=1&feature=plcp

[Carl Russell]

So from the ad it seems they are not that experienced, started certainly, but still needing the guidance of an experienced teamster. I am just curious about the price. Are their pedigrees that valuable???

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Looks like a cherry pit….. Wlid Black Cherry, or Choke Cherry in the area?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Ethan Tapper 36099 wrote:

….. and foresters try to run it out of the forest for that reason to make room for sawtimber potential species. ….

Not this forester.

I leave a lot of beech. As you say it is a major historical component of the northern forest, so trying to eliminate it makes no ecological sense.

Because markets have become so large, requiring regional supply, species such as beech, that have had so much impact from disease, are low on the market radar. Rutland plywood used to buy beech logs if they don’t still. Not huge money, but better than pulp, at least at my scale.

I feel that managing the forest is about more than marketable species. Trees in the forest contribute to density and provide other resources to the ecosystem than just sawlog potential. Foresters who lose sight of this are mismanaging our future resources.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Make sure you stay on level ground, and off ice, until you add some way to limit side-to-side swing of the pole. If not you may find yourself jack-knifing into one of your horses.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I don’t think horses relate accepting the bit with any other activities after that. Accepting the bit is just another task, like any other. Like Donn says, approach the horse with intention. There should be no attempt to get the horses permission. Obviously if you are too aggressive, then you will have a lot of ground to make up.

I have also successfully used a shortcut on horses that I got with a habit for resistance. I hold a peppermint in my hand with the bit. The horse has to accept the bit to get the peppermint. Of course you then have to wean them off that……. but it is fast, and easy, with little struggle.

George’s description is great. I have never used a round pen, but use the same methodology to some degree. You basically need to spend the background time to get the horse to want to do what you expect. This leads to something that Donn also touched on……

You can’t put the roof on and ignore the foundation. Accepting the bit, or not, is just an indication of the effectiveness of the communication between you and the horse. Pressure and release. When you press the horse, does it accept, or resist? Do you reward the horse for resisting by releasing pressure?

Even at the most fundamental level of interaction this communication needs to be reinforced. A task like accepting the bit is somewhat more important than some others, as you really can’t work most horses without getting the bit in, so I think it is imperative that it is taken on when the horse is open to your initiative.

Sometimes these expressions of resistance are the horse’s way of telling you that you may need to go back a few steps and work on fundamentals. I have seen a lot of teamsters who seem to be afraid of fundamentals, as if it is too remedial. The most experienced teamsters regularly revisit fundamentals….. you can’t hitch a horse that won’t stand still, you can’t bit a horse that won’t accept it….. and you really shouldn’t try until they are ready……and the only way to get them there is fundamental communication.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I have never had anyone in my family or customers who knew how to do anything with the blood, so I have never tried to collect it. Having never tried it, I can’t really comment on the effectiveness of one position over the other for that purpose, but I do have some opinions about restraint and death.

I have found that both goats and sheep become very subdued when turned on their backs. Once lifted into the sawbuck, it is a simple matter to then tie the animal with very little struggle. Also when on its back, pressing down on the chin, the skin and flesh on the underside of the throat are tight so that they retract quickly away from the knife blade, making the cut fast and easy.

With those two things in mind I would always defer to that method. The neck usually arches up (or when on the back, downward) once in the throws, so I don’t think it would be a hard thing to put a bucket down and catch the blood.

However, these acts are another fine art, each person finding ways that work best for themselves. Sounds like you have it pretty well worked out, so stick with it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Good job Andy.

I have found goats and sheep to be so easy to handle that I don’t even bother to stun them. I use a saw-buck….. X’es together like a sawhorse… to cut limb-wood. I restrain the animal, lift it, and place it upside down on top of the crosses. I tie down the front feet and hind feet to the belly, and the whole body to the sawbuck.

While pulling down on the chin, I slice through all of the vessels and can even decapitate reasonably fast….. just like poultry. I have found this to work flawlessly, with virtually no resistance or struggle from the goats…… and they die quickly.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I bury most stuff in the active manure pile…… chicken carcasses, poultry slaughter offal, and other small stuff. Recently we had to bury one of our 500+ pound sows….. it was a hot day, late, last minute thing, so I just dug a hole with the bulldozer and pushed a pile of dirt over her, but we do intend to get more prepared for carcass composting.

Most small carcasses and poultry offal decompose in a matter of months. It is far superior to burying in the soil, and if you have fresh additions then it covers the scent, and so far I have not had a dog problem.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I agree with you George… that was always my strategy. I found with a sicklebar I couldn’t mow as close anyway. I also have well-drained land where I cut hay, and I didn’t want to burn the roots after cutting. Of course now I am married to grazing specialist, and we manage our grass-land differently than our neighbors anyway.

For example, I had hay in seed in the middle of May this year and no way to harvest it with the wet conditions, so I brush-hogged it…… I got a few questions about that, but my wife totally supported me, as we didn’t waste the feed in brown hay, and fed the soil for future harvest.

I just bought a baler, and I’m reconditioning my mower, tedder, and rake, and I intend to harvest that field in the next few weeks.

One thing I try to do when mowing a field that I may graze though, is to not cut higher than 2 inches because the stubble will keep the cattle and horses from grazing any lower.

As we increase our forage production, we are moving toward taking hay off of at least a few fields as part of our grazing rotations. With that in mind, I am also working toward a Timothy/Red Clover mix for later maturation, so that I am not forced to try to make hay in May or early June. Less production maybe, but better quality hay, in terms of drying conditions.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

These are 15 and 16 year old geldings belonging to George Nolan in East Kingston, NH. Fine teamster, fine horses. George also has several pieces of good used horse drawn equipment, including a #9 High-gear mower ($1000), a good manure spreader, sulky plows, and several wagons and carriages.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Billy Foster 35844 wrote:

….. Yesterday when we were leaving to mow again they were walking very slowly down the road to get to the field. It was slow enough that I was paying particulate attention to see if their was a problem. I though several times about turning around and going back but decided to see if they perked up. It took about a half hour or so for them to get back to performing as they normally do. After mowing for 3 hours they were fine to trot the half mile dirt road home. It would appear that they were a little tired of the routine and possibly a little stiff in the beginning.
….

Billy, there have been times that I have noticed a distinct change in movement like you describe, and early on I wondered if there was something wrong…… However now (assuming it is the same…… I don’t want to discount your concern in case there is something wrong, but since both animals seem to be in coordination I will make my comment) I tend to recognize this as the horses becoming relaxed with the routine. I know that there are times when I expect a snappy gait, or significant exertion, but I have come to appreciate those times when my horses are just calmly walking.

Sometimes when we get used to a certain behavior it seems as though any break from that may be abnormal. If you can have a pair that walks along at an easy pace, what could be wrong with that?…… especially in really hot weather.

I also have been mowing with a tag-along DR brush mower, and I find that it can be difficult to manage the horses exertion to match the heat. They tend to want to work harder than they need to. In the woods it is the same way. But when I catch them voluntarily walking easily, I tend to reward them, and try to extend that as far as I can.

I see horses that get warmed up, and perhaps a bit tired, try harder, which can exacerbate the problem, making them hotter and more tired. So even though it is nice to have a snappy working gait, it may also be their way of rising to the challenge, and some more guidance from you might get them to walk more calmly during work.

If they walk like that again next time, try to see if resting them more often while working will extend the period, it is what I do.

Of course you may not like that gait, and of course there may be something seriously wrong with joints or muscles, so you should make sure that you are not making things worse. And certainly don’t let them get away with lolli-gagging their way out of a task.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Countymouse 35847 wrote:

Nice looking pup, Carl. It will be interesting to hear when and on what he starts to make an impact. Just out of curiosity, did your Jake tend kill critters or focus more on chasing them away? Mine only actually kills groundhogs by himself, and tends to chase and bail or tree (if possible) everything else.

Jake did not kill as a rule, mostly chased or treed, but I did see that he killed some snowshoe hares that would come into the yard.

Ringo (the new pup) is starting to growl and bark when he is suspicious about noises in the woods, but he is already chasing squirrels…. the kids said he had a big-ass vole the other day…..apparently his dad is quite a killer.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@PeytonM 35808 wrote:

….To be totally honest I’m really green to draft horses, and all this stuff. …..

Peyton, I totally understand…… When I bought my first horse I had only very little experience with horses in general, and nearly no experience with draft horses.

The horse I bought was mid-teens and had not been worked regularly, but the man I bought him from had taken him in trade for a pair of ponies, and had him going well on a stone-boat……. and I really wanted a horse. The first time I harnessed him and tried to drive him, I kissed at him…… and he turned around and came right over to me.

It comes with practice, repetition, patience, persistence, and humility……

Good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

If you are providing a service, then charge. If it is just recon to see if you want the work, then that should be at your expense. If you think you’ve seen enough, then tell the forester that you don’t need to walk it again. If you’re going to take the job, then decide what you are going to charge for and tell them when it will start.

If you think that it may be a marginally profitable situation where you may be putting in time like this that is hard to charge for then either, don’t take the job, start charging now, or charge more for the work.

Some people, including foresters, tend to devalue the time of people who work for them. If you don’t watch out you will be taken advantage of. This is one of the reasons I charge $50/hr for most of the work I do. It makes people think, and if they don’t want to pay me, then I don’t have to be distracted by their foolishness.

Carl

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