[Carl Russell]

@Tim Harrigan 38021 wrote:

…..So. I think Carl has thrown down the gauntlet and is challenging this network to evolve into something greater, and also warning that it could devolve in to something less.

To some degree that may be true, but I was really just responding to Andy’s query about increasing membership, use of Dap.com, and focusing on the value of content.

I too really like Andy’s ideas about how to use the content, but also recognize the value represented in being able to connect here, and use that to your advantage.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Carl Russell 38012 wrote:

…….. Think about it, is it more important that you found information here, or is it more important that you were able to find that information here?

Carl

What I meant to say was, is the information you found here more valuable than the fact that you were able to find it?

Which is more important, the information, or the fact that it was here to find, and that you had easy access to it, and that you were welcomed to critique it, and to add to it, and to improve it??

Carl

[Carl Russell]

In my earlier analogy, the movement toward the fence line is not the connectivity….. it is the culture that supports the activities of community members, which as so often is taken for granted. Next generations don’t take the time to continue some f the practices that bound them together, and regardless of the values provided, the essence of the community dissolves.

Connectivity does not necessarily have to do with continual growth, it has more to do with clean crisp, and effective connections, like synapses in our nervous system. Some of that is not just about clean connection, but also easy, and comfortable, and personally customizable come to mind.

I see many things here that represent ways that people can make the connections. Although taken for granted, they are what makes this site accessible, and useful for folks.

Some of us are equipped with personalities that allow us to search for, and find, what we want, even when buried within confusing language, or held by anti-social people. However, those are not the people who really need our help. We can offer all kinds of information, but by creating an user friendly interface, where folks find comfortable community interaction, utilizing some of the natural power of the internet, we can make it available to a growing number of people.

My goal never was to answer questions. It was to gather together a growing community of interest, so that we could all find the answers we are looking for. Think about it, is it more important that you found information here, or is it more important that you were able to find that information here?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

If you were a young teamster plowing a field and could see a more experienced person plowing in an adjacent field, you might stop and go over to the fence line to watch and ask questions. That is connectivity. It is ripe with information, but you are first and foremost “connected” to the direct flow of information and experience.

I have never discounted content. I worked hard at the beginning to set a tone for content density. I realize that content, like the competent teamster in the other field, is attractive, but let’s say that the next competent teamster is 100 miles away and hidden in a field at the end of a road in a town where most folks think he or she is nuts. How do you find them? If someone isn’t searching for you, isn’t keeping contact info, isn’t drawing them into conversation, isn’t asking them how they could benefit from connections to others, isn’t creating a forum where they can share, then you don’t have access to what they have to offer.

We cannot fall into the trap of thinking we have made all of those connections. DAPNet was formed specifically to be searching for, and connecting resources and the people looking for them. I know that there are little gems scattered all over our region that are yet to be uncovered. It is in my nature to look for them. People have come to me for years, asking “Do you know of somebody….?”, or “Do you know where I can get….?”, and we created this effort so that it could grow on its own.

One of the things that separates this site from other social network sites is the serious content. In our case social networking means finding common ground on plow points, not hair color. But under it all, there is huge potential to use the same mechanism to enhance interaction here.

“Most users ever online was 199, 05-27-2011 at 11:20 PM.” This was 18 months ago. Just after I stepped away from administering this site…………. Activity here is what elevates us on Google. Activity here has something to do with content, but more importantly it has to do with “Activity Here”….. meaning actively drawing people here….. connectivity is how I describe that.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Countymouse 37961 wrote:

……We simply can’t do the same things we have done and expect different results. ……..

OK, I just couldn’t resist….

We are not doing the same thing and expecting different results……. Currently we are doing something different and expecting the same results. The way it is being used right now definitely could benefit from some creativity. It really is not the way this site grew into its current form.

I never ran this site without sponsorship and donations. I made about $1500/year. It wasn’t enough, but it helped to support the effort I put into managing connectivity here. That included helping to sort out thread topics, expanding discussions by encouraging sharing and moderating tone, seeding discussions, developing categories and forum layout, and managing the forum and upgrading functionality. I also spent a lot of time and outreach drawing people’s attention here.

I made sure there was some active management, a person that presented themselves publicly as The Administrator, directing the site, acting out the things that perk people’s interests, taking on a public persona, engaging people, and taking responsibility for the way content gets here and is shared.

I know that it can’t be done for free. There is a value here that is marketable to folks/businesses/organizations who want to support it and gain exposure doing it. At the same time there are things about this site that users take for granted that could easily be seen as perks, and they might be just enough to encourage more DAPNet memberships. I feel that if you start charging for content you will lose interest very quickly…… remember it isn’t The Sopranos here.

The ideas that I have laid out in other posts were all on my radar before, but I could not continue putting in the time, and creation of DAPNet was an attempt to use a model of broader funding to support a more intense management of the resources here. One of the last things I did was to make sure this site was upgraded to a more comprehensive format, just so that there could be greater connectivity, and under the management I had practiced, that could have generated more income and DAPNet memberships.

That is why I am excited that you are looking seriously here.

Rather than discounting connectivity, use it. Bring connectivity back to the forefront. Show people why being connected to this community is so valuable. Use certain aspects of connectivity as perks for DAPNet members only. Call up some high profile folks to sponsor this site. Horse Progress Days was on the short list to swap advertisements. The connectivity on this site is not being used like it could be, or like it was, and while some of your ideas about improving content presentation are great, the basic premise of this site could be picked up and polished off with little cost, and large effect.

This is a social network site with a side-effect of valuable information and educational experience. Improving content presentation without improving management of the social network is missing the point. This content has more value because of the sounding board resulting from the connectivity that refines and improves the content. Content here is not valuable because of precision, but because of the many nuances that are brought to a topic by the many eyes that review it.

I hope that both aspects of this site can be taken seriously… for all of our sakes.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Private Messaging is another feature that could be limited to paying DAPNet members….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I realize that DAP.com doesn’t have any current sponsor, but if this site were to generate more income to offset the time of administration, an Administrator could monitor a thread and when needed contact a poster to see if they have, or know of, pics or vids that could help them speak to the topic. By using Admin status larger files could be uploaded, or videos could be made on demand, or links to other online resources could be shared as the thread develops……Once modified such threads could be put in their own category.

In this case the Administrator would be more like an editor of a magazine than a housekeeper. It would require more time, hence compensation, but it could make this site much more interactive, in real time, and therefore more vital, and again more likely to be supported financially by folks who find it valuable…..

Like public radio this site can be supported more by sponsorship and donations rather than by membership.

I would be inclined to keep this site free to the public, not restricting access to any content. Rather restrict to paying DAPNet members only things like profile signatures, or advertising (if it ever get to that), or increased capacity for uploading pics and attachments. And there could be a category highlighting links or services etc offered by DAPNet members only, clearly viewable by everyone, but only accessible for posting by those who are paying members. No one uses it now, but this site has a blog area, this could be limited to DAPNet members only.

In other words, grow the content on this site, and make it available to as many folks as possible, but limit the ability to use the connectivity of this site to DAPNet members only. It would require some overview from Admin, but most of what I described above can be done easily in the admin panel by creating filters for certain user groups…

Just mind running wild….:eek:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Tim and Andy, are either, or both, of you administrators on this site yet? I know that administrators can edit any posts, and that would include inserting pictures and video. We may be able to modify some our current threads using existing You Tube vids to experiment….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

From Wikipedia…. “Some horseshoes have “caulkins“, “caulks”, or “calks”: protrusions at the toe and/or heels of the shoe, to provide additional traction.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe)

So I followed that link to Caulken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulkin) “A caulkin (or caulk; US spelling “calkin” or “calk“) from the Latin calx (the heel) is a blunt projection on a horseshoe that is often forged, welded or brazed onto the shoe.^[1][2] The term may also refer to traction devices screwed into the bottom of a horseshoe, also commonly called shoe studs or screw-in calks. These are usually a blunt spiked cleat, usually placed at the sides of the shoe.”

Hope this makes thing a lot clearer…… :confused:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

The term is Caulk…… the colloquial usage is Cork…

Interestingly the term Caulk has to do with stopping something up….. like filling a gap….. or “corking” a bottle…. or by driving two things together. The Latin root stems from “tread”, like to tread something into place, or to “heel”, like heeling in plants…….

I see no reference to the use of Caulks AS tread.

I did find a reference to a Cork as a peg.

Call it what you want, just make sure the folks you’re talking to know what you mean…….:cool:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Man Jay, that is some long day. I’m glad you all came out OK. Be well, Carl

[Carl Russell]

@fogish 37927 wrote:

….. At the NEAPFD is DAPNet vouching for presenters or just saying “Here is a group of people with information”? ……

Never vouched for anybody. It was all about connecting people to choose and decide for themselves. We did preliminary research, to verify some level of competence, but let the attendees determine validity. That’s why we held so many panels. It really never was about content, just connections…… you folks built the content once the connections were facilitated.

I think it would be pretty cool if I could just step out and harness my horses to answer a question about the D-ring. I mean I know I can do that now, and I do to some extent, but it could be a pretty interesting interface to have a mix of text based discussion with video replay……

We can already do that to some degree, by linking or inserting pics or vids, but having a category set up so that someone could tell that the thread was more interactive could be important.

Maybe we should go through an existing thread looking for opportunities where video demonstration or discussion could enhance it, then make those clips and insert them. It seems like it could be hard to have these always in real time, like a webinar, because sometimes it’s days or weeks before a motivating post, or question, comes along………

Carl

[Carl Russell]

This website already has the capacity to restrict viewers that don’t meet certain criteria. No upgrade needed. You could start a DAPNet members only category right now…..

I caution against the idea that creating something special will automatically mean more likelihood for increased membership and associated income. Membership, like sponsorship and donations, needs to be cultivated. Making videos may require more sponsorship than it could generate in membership dues anyway.

I think that there is a lot that can be done right now to get more people to join DAPNet, just by being more direct and clear about the value of what is being made available currently.

I also think that as Rick pointed out the quality control issue brings up a few points for me. One is how many topics are we going to be able to claim expertise in, and if by so doing, do we alienate folks who have good stuff to offer. Also if we make a concerted effort to sort through the currently available content, on You Tube for example, and have a clear dedicated area where these links are available on DAP.com, then not only do we provide the service of sorting and cataloging, but we also can enhance our value to the presenters by expanding their exposure to a targeted audience.

As Tim says the interaction around important topics is what is valuable to us, so maybe the first productions could be of panel discussions with noted presenters and an audience asking questions about a topic that they all have experience with. Jason Rutledge put out such a video a few years back featuring himself, Wendell Berry, and Troy Firth. I found it to be pretty interesting.

I’m with Geoff about the webinars. While I like the idea, our bandwidth just can’t support it, so I am much more attracted to written discussion, or traveling to an event in person.

One of the values of the web in my mind is the ability to tie together a series of resources that exist independently simply by linking to their whereabouts. I was dreaming of creating an indexed library on DAP.org that would link photos of events with presenters and equipment depicted, to articles, websites, videos, and other related links. Someone could see a picture of Jay Bailey on a Forest Manufacturing log cart with Suffolk horses, and they would be able to follow links to Fair Winds Farm, or to the library to see an article written about him or someone in his family, or they could watch a video of the FM log cart being used during a NEAPFD……..the possibilities are endless really….. and currently available to DAPNet administrators/BOD.

There is a lot of information out there in our network right now that could be drawn together, saving folks a lot of time searching. That was the germ that sprouted into NEAPFD and DAPNet……….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Countymouse 37866 wrote:

……..
I am certainly not suggesting that unpopular categories be eliminated, nor do I think this is wise. I am partly using this data to determine areas of interest, as well as the depth of knowledge people are interested in, in plan possible videos, events, or other enhanced in depth features that we might include in the future…….

I guess I wasn’t so concerned about how to manage the site, and was aware of your overall objective. I was just suggesting that there are other factors that go into developing an active thread….. take D-ring Origins, or Draft Buffers for example….. which in my mind are pretty obscure topics…….. but the thoughtful discussion, and inclusive nature of evaluating differing views or criticisms, make for very attractive reading and a welcoming participatory environment. I also think that specifically in those cases there may have been a lot of posts, but many of them are by a small number of people offering a lot of content.

All in all I like your approach. I think there are a lot of topics in this field of interest that people don’t realize that they are interested in, or don’t know that they should be interested in, or maybe they don’t even realize that an issue exists. Taking the time to make informational presentations on important topics will be more valuable in the long run, than just making presentations that respond specifically to expressed interests.

You are one who has a critical mind. I think that you come up with very interesting ideas that you end up opening other peoples eyes with…….. just bare that in mind.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Talk about rabbit holes…… Pretty interesting stuff, but it is important to realize that most of the visitors (views) to this site are robots…. google spiders that search down certain terms, names, content, or recent activity, etc…… Which ultimately is important for us, as that helps to elevate DAP.com on the google search which leads people here, but may not translate to any usable statistics for evaluating content.

Most of the categories, and threads have developed from interests expressed by visitors here. So, while there is some value in trying to figure out what most people are looking for most of the time, one value of this site has been that even obscure interests could/can be explored.

The “atmosphere” of this site, the open, inclusive, respectful tone is as valuable to visitors here as the actual content. The content is important, but if folks don’t feel comfortable asking, or posting, then content would not have grown like it has.

I found when I was administrator that interest grows where interest is placed. If you were to seed the clouds in an unused category, I am willing to bet that you will see activity there. I used to look for specific topic areas within posts, create a category for threads like that, and then activity would follow.

Andy I am excited that you are taking such an interest in this site. Your analysis will only benefit our shared interests.

Carl

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