[Carl Russell]

George, I think you are right on. The topic is so deep and multi-dimensional that I also subscribe to the “If this makes sense then you can come visit me at my farm, or I may know some other folks who can give you more in-depth training” philosophy. It served us well at NEAPFD, and I continue to use that strategy. Also don’t shy away from dropping hints that the school could engage you for externships, or off-campus credit programs.

I think that we should all be paying attention to these opportunities, and continue to network among ourselves around this type of initiative. If we connect the dots between Vermont, Wisconsin, California, Maine, Virginia, etc, where each of us are starting to make these types of in-roads then we can build on each other’s work and build a better resource base to build this community.

Sounds great, and good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jared, we were in that little stand of ash just across the meadow from the barns, and below the closed-in leantos. I knew Larry had spent time there, but I was asked by Green Mountain College, so I don’t know what GMDHA is doing there now.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I’m not sure of all of the possible uses. I just don’t use this machine enough, and I don’t intend to use if for logging, so I probably won’t fix the winch. The power unit has a lot of potential beyond just building roads, site work, and pushing up logs. I think the loader would come in handy for many aspects of log handling, like loading trailers, or possibly sleds and wagons.

I think stockpiling firewood logs, or moving logs and slab wood at the saw mill would also be good uses. I know that these loaders also have attachments like post-hole augers, and manure paddles for handling compost, or other loose material. I can see moving other heavy objects like round bales, stones, etc.

But I don’t want to spend enough to pay for the whole forwarder just to get the loader….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I am not interested in building a loader. It’s clear that these small loaders are being built mostly for the small forwarders, and to some degree, trucks, but I am doing some market research on the makes and models to find prices and availability. If I have to, I will then consider building one……

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I am just thinking about making this piece of equipment more versatile. It’s mostly a fishing trip right now…. But obviously I am thinking about lifting logs. 😎

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@grey 40255 wrote:

….At the intersection of the hip strap and the over-the-croup strap, what’s going on there?….

The Hip Strap is split so the over-the-croup strap can slide through for adjustment….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Basket Breeching (Britchen)

Hip-drop Breeching (Britchen)

…. both on D-ring harnesses.

I agree with Bill about the backing and hold-back capacity of the Basket style……

It is a hard aspect of our culture to work out colloquial and regional terminology. I rarely know the proper name of anything….. but I know how it works if I use it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I was focusing more on the “starting” exercise, but I also have those modification that come into play during work. At the landing, or when hitching or unhitching, I will ask my horses to step, or back with no line contact. I also use the same commands when gathering sap or hay, or off-loading manure, when I do not have lines in my hands.

In these latter situations tough, the horses have been taught that this is not the same as “starting”. They are much more tentative, possibly because there is no bit contact, but they are inclined inch forward, stopping easily on voice command.

There is no doubt many nuances to this art, which makes it so inspiring to me at every turn.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I think a good start starts with a good whoa. My basic training of horses always comes down to pressure and release. When driving I maintain slight contact on the bit… pressure.. by which I communicate my intentions. When I am done communicating with my horses in a working situation, then I whoa them and release the lines…. completely.

Then my horses wait for contact on the bit before they even consider moving…… but as has been mentioned, I don’t touch the lines until I am ready to move. I do not gather the lines looking around, or any other distraction. I decide what I will expect from the horses, then I pick up the lines, establishing contact, their heads come up, ears back, and I kiss.

My horses are always coming. If the load is light they feel it instantly, and walk off easily, like cultivating in a garden. If it comes hard, they are ready for it. Sometimes they don’t try hard enough, but rarely on the second attempt.

I think that using contact also helps in managing the forward effort, like a gas pedal, and they are always together responding to the same physical cues.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I stopped making HD movies…. the definition is overplay on the web….. if you wanted to show the film on a projector it might make a difference.

When I export the movies I save them as medium-sized m4v files (640×360). Also, when I create the movie I choose standard size 4:3, rather than wide screen 16:9.

When I started making vids, using the default settings, I found that I had to wait for hours even on a high speed system, just because the file was so huge. I went back and reformatted it to the above setting, and it took 15 minutes….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I use a JD 14T. At first the plunger pushes the horses, but as they get used to it, they will get into a sort of strut, where they step at the rate of the plunger….. I use D-ring harnesses, so there is no slack in the hitch. I have seen the NH 275, and can’t see where the weight could be that much different, but my 14T seems reasonably easy for them to handle……on moderate slope and flat ground.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks…..

One of the most unnerving aspects is that I was ahead of schedule, relaxed, and everything seemed to be going perfectly. I am definitely a chain first kind of guy….. not my first rodeo…. but in this case, for some reason, I was just plugging along up this road with absolutely no consideration to traction….:confused: That’s why when it all started to slide backward, I felt like a complete a-hole…

Anyway, when I came home last night I stopped and chained up:cool: before climbing this hill.

On the ride home last night I was a bundle of nerves, especially as there was a steady dusting of banana peel snow, and I had to cross two mountain ridges, with no way around.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Ben, that is great. I think this combination will really make horse-logging more feasible across the landscape. We just don’t have much good used equipment like that around here, and most folks I know have a tractor because of the multiple use for farming and other work, so the trailer models seem to be more common.

What I really like about this methodology is that the harvesting roads can be maintained easier, and after the harvest offer more functionality to the landowner.

I also really like what you referred to about working in cooperation with other horse-loggers. As we increase our capabilities as viable forestry practitioners, pulling together more horsepower in certain situations will be of great advantage.

Thanks for sharing, and keep us up to date……

Carl

[Carl Russell]

The “problem” with the concept of opportunity cost is that it creates a basis value focused entirely on the market sale value of the product regardless of costs of production. It actually is a perfect illustration of the concepts that I have been explaining as driving the timber industry.

This concept accepts some assumption that all natural resources have a financial value based purely on what someone is willing to pay for them. This formula down-plays the commitment costs that go into fostering, protecting, or restoring the ecological systems that support the growth of these organisms. This is why economy of scale does not work with biological systems and organisms.

The concept is really rooted in capital expenses, not in production costs. When you buy forestland, some of the cost can be attributed to the value of the timber growing there. Without cutting it and selling it, the only way to determine the basis value is to get a representation of market value paid by loggers at that point in history. Over time the new owner will accrue value that is considered capital gain, and if the income from the sale of logs is high enough, one can deduct the value of the basis in order to get a more accurate estimate of the actual gain during the ownership period. It really shouldn’t be used to calculate the cutting and sale of individual trees.

The problem with using this formula to support forestry improvement is that the support system apparently has no value. It would be like a gardener growing tomatoes with no focus on investment in the long-term productivity of the garden…… which by the way has been a similar problem in agriculture run on straight-line economics.

As landowners we have the right to determine what part of our land is most valuable to us. Some may purely focus on those things that can be produced by the land with minimal cost, and maximized income. However, on my property the primary value is in the vitality of the ecosystems that support my livelihood. The trees, tomatoes, and milk, are just consequences of the work we do to invigorate those systems. For sale of items that I have total control of the sale price, I adjust upward to cover the costs of our investments. For products such a sawlogs to a local mill where price is controlled by other features, I deduct those costs from my timber basis, not from the ecosystem.

I feel that the timber basis that was passed on to me, or onto any new owners of forestland for that matter, was in part based on compromises born now by our ecosystem from generations of neglect in the name of economy. I take it as a personal mission to reinvest some of that value back into the ecosystem that will support future productivity.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

You have some great suggestions here. The business plan is a good way to refine your purposes. I also wrote one as I got underway. One thing I found, though, is that this scale logging is hard to capture in balance sheets and P/L statements, especially because of the independence and personal value that draft animals bring to our lives.

For me it has always come down to working for people who understand what I am doing. That does not mean that I need to advertise to the public. I have tried a few such campaigns, and found very little interest. Like Tom says, network. Find locals who appreciate your work, and spread out from there.

One of the most important ways to assure that others know what you offer, is for you to KNOW what you offer. That is more of the narrative part of the business plan, but that has not changed for me in over 25 years.

As Tom also says, education like GOL chainsaw safety are great tools to develop a professional approach. In VT there is a LEAP(Logger Education to Advance Professionalism) program offering logging and forestry business management and forestry skills. MOFGA LIF has great programs to support draft animal logging and forestry. Working with other loggers to learn their markets and product processing practices, will be beneficial.

Most of all, at least for me, is to get a grip on the service you intend to provide. Are you going to be a low-cost harvester, looking for opportunities to under-cut competition? Are you going to be looking to work as a contract logger dispatched to work by a consultant forester? Or are you going to work directly with landowners to provide specific improvement practices?

Whichever way you go, you need to gain understanding of that work so that you can apply it just as you claim you will be able to, and so that you can describe it clearly when talking to potential clients. No matter, you will always get folks contacting you just because you log with cattle. While on the surface that may seem like free advertising, it can also be dangerous, because they actually have many other preconceptions about what that means. Having a clear picture of what you are going to do in the woods is a key, as far as I am concerned.

Then break down the finances so that you are clear about what you need to make at the end of the day, and then take the work that supports that. And do the kind of work that speaks for itself……

Carl

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