[Carl Russell]

In this case, I’m pretty sure it is Near Horse…..

[Carl Russell]

http://draftanimalpower.com/forums/topic/calks-corks-and-caulks/

 

In fact in this case, I think I know who this is, but I was just surfing old posts (to see how the transition went) and have seen several of these profiles….

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Am I to understand that the “anonymous” members are folks who have not updated their login registration yet?

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Thanks Gabe….

[Carl Russell]

Thanks Donn, I am sure it has to do with permission filters…… I don’t care either really…. but I never thought we looked that similar…..

Just posted this to alert you because it is clear administrators have the permissions set, but so far participants don’t.

 

Thanks, Carl

 

[Carl Russell]

Cannot find avatar edit button….

[Carl Russell]

I am also looking forward to the refinements….

Thanks, Carl

[Carl Russell]

Nice to see your thoughtful posts once again Marko.

I like Andy’s point. We may all benefit from sharing your thesis.

Good luck, and please keep connected as it seems appropriate.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

In thinking about the discussion in Horses Standing, I recalled these comments in this short thread. This was one of the very first threads on this forum.

Carl Russell wrote:

What I do concentrate on is communication. I expect that my animals learn to listen to me, and to trust me when I give commands. I never assume that they have any predictable coarse of action. Therefore I have to be completely alert and aware of not only the working situation, but also aware of them and their re/actions.

@lynn miller]I still choose to depend on draft horses as motive power for the farming. I never tire of them or the nature of my working partnership. It is always fresh and intriguing. In the oft quoted words of my mentor Ray Drongesen &#8220 The longer I work them, the less I know, and the easier it gets.” [/QUOTE wrote:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Donn Hewes 40588 wrote:

…. horses and mules are relatively simple. Not necessarily easy, …… Training people is really what I am focusing on. …… The old timers talked to the rest of the world the same way they did to horses; say a few key things, usually quietly, and stand in such a way to convey the rest of the message.

…… Many motivated or interested young folks I meet need something more basic as a starting point. ……

These comments speak directly to the point I started making, to describe that while it may make sense to a person that Whoa is different than stand, it is more complicated than is necessary for a horse, and really is a human concept trying to be applied to a horse.

Horses are very intelligent, and capable, but they are not intellectually complex. That doesn’t make them EASY to work with, especially given the innate complexity of the human thought process.

As Donn says this is not a problem for the horse, but really a problem for us.

Ronnie Tucker wrote:

i do appreciate you fellows efforts to explain these things.i could never get it on paper.

I have tried to explain that my comments are based on my own rationale. I have also tried to describe “What I do with my horses”. While I may make some language slips which make it seem like I am lecturing, my approaches are a result of an intuitive process of working with my own horses. I have had no formal training, and carry no credentials, but over the years I have upgraded my knowledge with information from others in the field who do have more widely-recognized authority. I have found some insights from them, but in large degree found more of a validation for what I have learned to do on my own.

My goal is to try to explain what I do, and why I do it, not so much to get others to mimic me, but, I hope, to share some insights and a sense of validation for what you already do.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Ronnie Tucker 40578 wrote:

this is way to deep for me.southern workstock must be easier brake.i will keep trying to follow along.

It really isn’t complicated….. I have watched you with your mules Ronnie. You lead with clarity, not complex shades of grey. You know what you expect, and you know how to get the mules to respond accordingly. I also learned from men who grew up doing this. They knew that to honor horses means to understand them as the animals they are. They are not complex intellectual beasts, and that is not a bad thing, it just is.

The complicated aspect comes from modern interpretation, thinking that once horses learn a task then they can accomplish it from then on without guidance. The teamsters art is active, momentary, and perpetual. It requires a lot of responsibility, humility, and awareness. It is not a casual endeavor, where once the horse is trained the teamster can relax and no longer needs to read the landscape and direct the enterprise. These are complex concepts that tend to be brought by modern interpretation.

What I am describing is simple and direct, but gets complicated to explain in the midst of modern assumptions.:eek:

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I don’t really have a “Series” of exercises, just a whole host of ways I build communication with my horses. And as I have said it is P/R over and over and over.

When I start with a horse, I am pressure off, completely ignoring the animal, just letting them be the horse they are, until they become comfortable with that fact. I want them to see me in the state where I am comfortable with them as they are. This is my base-line for release. Then I start placing expectations on them, pressure, escalating to get what I want, then releasing.

This is the basis of my communication with them, and they become comfortable with it, to the point that everything I expose them to is applied in the same manner. They learn to pay attention to how I use pressure and release to indicate my expectations, and when they learn this, and expect this, then they are comfortable and confident following my lead.

I am not a trainer per se, so I don’t really have exercises. I am more of a communicator, so every situation is fresh for me, and I just try to stay present and look for the best way to communicate to my horses what it is that I expect. Sometimes that means falling back on some tried and true process, other times it is something completely new that I come up with on the spot. I find it to be very much like a conversation.

I find it hard sometimes to not fight when a horse is resistant. I find that not asking a horse to do what they don’t want to do works best. It is really challenging to wait for the natural responses that are the ones we want, rather than to correct the behaviors we don’t want. Horses do much better when rewarded. I like to find ways in which I can reward the horse for acceptable behavior, and try to stay away from struggling with them, because it generally conveys to them that part of what I want to do is struggle with them.

If I get a high degree of resistance it usually means that I have not conditioned the horse well enough to my pressure. Sometimes horses can be so accommodating that they require very little pressure to respond in many cases, so we don’t have a opportunity to show them how we can control the level of pressure exertion, and that we can go as high as we need to get the desired result. If we are always reasonable and reserved then we never give them the chance to see how “big” we can get if we need to. I like to find ways to show how big I can get, and how well I can control that, by returning to comfort when I get their recognition.

It is no doubt the desire to be subtle all the time, but since horses are pressure positive they will push back, so they need to get a clear picture of the extremes that you will go to maintain your initiative. Once they understand this, they will relate to every pressure this way. If they are too accommodating for some expectations, they begin to expect a low level of pressure, so that when they get into a situation where they need more guidance, any greater pressure may be confusing to them, and they may be inclined to fight it.

By showing them a graduated scale of pressure, they learn that pressure is not a wall, but an increasing barrier, that the harder they press into it, the less likely it is that they will enjoy it. They do not need to be defeated by it to learn that it is in their best interests to stop pushing, especially if there is an equal degree of reward for their response.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

@Mark Cowdrey 40560 wrote:

Carl,
It would be helpful to me if you could explain what “contact” means to you.
Thanks,
Mark

The point where the tension, or lack of slack, on the lines makes contact with the bit. A horse can feel a fly land on a hair on its foot, so it can be pretty light contact, but there is a difference between holding the lines in my hands and “making contact”. You can see my open hands in this picture. I’m not putting much pressure on that bit…. and it is just a straight bar… no leverage.

Now, my horses when fresh will feel me get on my logging cart, or they make see me moving in behind them, and they will become alert, maybe even act like they want to step out, but THAT is not contact, and I condition them to wait for me to actually pick up slack in the lines. The way I do that is by making clear and complete release of pressure at whoa, do it often, and do it as a reward for action they took during contact. There is a clear dichotomy, a undeniable distinction, between contact=task, and release=reward.

I can tell I have made contact by the way the horse reacts. There is another whole series of exercises that help the horse to learn that contact to me is that razor thin line between slack, and tight…. At the same time light as a feather, and hard as a rock….. but that also comes down to pressure and release, and escalation of pressure only to the point where they give in, then immediate release, but only to the other side of that razor thin line, so that as they test again, I can reiterate the exact level of contact I am looking for.

Jeroen Vos wrote:

…. because often you drive them without thinking like you drive your car and this makes you think… Unfortunately I rarely think about driving horses like this…. I am too stimulated by the creative interaction…:o

Carl

[Carl Russell]

I will hold on to the lines during work, while at whoa, but with no contact, as a way to be prepared to begin again, or as you say, to insure against accidental spooking. However, it is still without contact.

I over emphasize that need to be ready when picking up lines because this is a common tendency of horses, to be more ready than the teamsters. I am not consistently convinced that it is a matter of calming the horse, as much as it is encouraging the teamster to be more ready. Often, I will get contact and reiterate whoa, and release, so that they know I’m there, but they also know they are to remain standing. In this way whoa is more like a command, but I condition them to it as a reward.

Scary distractions are always challenging. I tend to focus on the horses, reiterating that they can remain calm, standing at whoa, but ready to reaffirm my control. I generally find that by giving them whoa as a reward, they are inclined to be less concerned about potential threats….. they feel safe in that mode.

I also firmly believe that having a clear and consistent “language” that I use to reinforce my knowledge of them, and subsequently, my leadership, they really do look to me for guidance in threatening situations. I rarely feel like I have to get them to stop paying attention to the “Saber-toothed Tiger in the bushes” (school bus)…. They know it is there, but they are paying attention to how I am reacting to it, to determine how they should react to it.

Carl

[Carl Russell]

Ten good years……. find peace in his memory, made poignant by his absence. Be well, Carl

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